FED 1d T.S.V.V.S F93- "No Name", fake or not?

Hi Ad,

I completely agree with Bill about the historical importance of your cameras.

About the shape of the cover, if we refer to the following thread: http://ussrphoto.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2094 , it seems that the "round" corners of the cover were made after the "straight" ones. Yours have round corners. If we consider too the lens (which could be original on the camera), delivered in 1951, we could have post production. But we know not how the normal running was delivered. And pre production would be more logical!

Concerning the dimensions of the cameras, I really think that you should buy a 1d or 1f to make a close comparison with your two cameras, Ad. If it's not possible for some reason, I can send you one of my Fed 1.

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hi Jacques,
Yes, you are right. It does seem that these two cameras have come from the second group from looking at the shape of the corner, as well as the date of the lens.

So, maybe not prototypes, but two cameras from the second year of production that were left in East Germany rather than sent to the USSR. Since one has 'mirror' chrome and on has 'frosted chrome, maybe the mirror chrome one was constructed from parts that were taken from production before the frosting of the chrome, which maybe can be explained (as well as no engravings of numbers or logos) to be samples put together to look at the changes made (so, a sort of prototype or example of the second series?).

Regards, Bill

Hello Jacques & Bill,
Thanks for the investigation, research and good words.
I wanted to search for a repair of the shutter (the ribbon of the curtain of the normal metal version, is broken). But I follow your advice: I'll do nothing at the moment. But: I'm very curious if there is a number inside the camera. It can do no harm to unscrew the 6 screws of the camerahouse?

And when I'm in France again, I 'll take a look at your 1d, Jacques :).
And Juhani: I'll make some better pictures of the whole camera.

Regards,
Ad

If I were you, I would not do that, unless you are a pro. You risk to scratch the screws and spoil the screw-threads when remounting. And there are not only the six screws on the upper plate to dismount; the four black front screws too: they tie the shutter box directly to the body... And the four screws of the lens plate also, for sure...

You should train on an inexpensive Fed or Zorki before trying that on your cameras...

As for showing my 70 Fed 1 to you, no problem when you are here!

Jacques.

Hello Jacques,
70, vraiment? Really? I can't wait ... :)
Ad

Hello Ad

I'm very interested in this find and I don't have a clear opinion about it at the moment. Your cameras are not very well documented at the moment as Jacques mentioned more than one time. More and better pictures would help a lot. I don't understand what picture is showing camera A or B. I can't say anything about the authenticity of the cameras because I own a not so authentic copy only (made from a FED).

It would be a very good idea to meet Jacques with your cameras and I'm shure this would bring us to new interesting facts.

I would consider not to change anything at the cameras too. Please keep them as they are because of the historical importance they may have.

Best wishes - Guido

Hello Ad,
I think it is not too late to join the thread. You can see my no-name TSVVS hier:
http://ussrphoto.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=790&whichpage=2
It looks similar to yours. If you need more photos to compare let me know.

Regards, Alexander

Hello Alexander,
I'll examine your photos. Thanks.
M.fr.Gr.,regards,
Ad

Hello Juhani,
At your request: 2 pictures of the camera's. Above the chromed version. It's difficult to make a picture of the chromed version: strange reflections all over.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/19122016_PC190496.JPG




http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/19122016_PC190500.JPG

Hi Ad,

no doubts for me that they are both real TSVVS cameras. Congratulations to that find. The chromed one could be chromed later, but to say that one must have it in the hands.

If you are interested I can inspect and clean them. I have disassembled my TSVVS some times ago and I think I can say if yours are real.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Hello Alexander,
I saw the pictures of your camera: very much alike mine! (Except the 4 screws on the front, mine arer all black.) And of course, as mentioned above by Jacques already, mine seems to be newer because of the rounding near the rangefinder. (But the PH1005 on the site: http://www.sovietcams.com/index.php?1556498228 has a rounding too. And they wrote on that site "Seems to be an earliest version of TSVVS camera (...)". So I'm not so sure anymore about the age, pre or post....)
You are a lucky guy too to possess such a camera!
M.fr.Gr.,regards,
Ad

Thanks for the new photos, Ad.
Looking at them, it seems that:

On the above version, the strap lugs are lower than on ordinary TSVVS-s,
On the other one (below), it's the middle screw which is not on its common place. And the rectangular finder ir not exactly centered.

This last remark is important, as most fakes have a wrong rectangular window, too large, because of a cover borrowed to Fed 1 (I have not said that your camera is a fake!).

Now, concerning the classification adopted by sovietcams, I don't see why these non engraved TSVVS should necessarily be pre serie cameras. But the shape of the cover, they should rather be intermediate prototypes or post series. I ask Aidas about it. Certainly he will answer!

Alexander: I cannot see if you have screws or rivets to fix the lock of the bottom on your camera? It seems there are inside numbers stamped?

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Thank you for the pictures, an amazing pair of cameras :)
Also amazing as a find, just the reason why you should always check those small shops and flea markets. You never know what gems there can be...
And may help to solve the mystery of TSVVS. These may be the missing links in the puzzle, and one more proof that TSVVS was not a series of fakes made much later than claimed.
Remember that Jena looked like this after the war:

And this is Dresden:

Easy to imagine, that all parts available were used to build cameras, tradeable to bread. Best ones to the new rulers, engraved TSVVS, and the rest unlabeled, bit rougher, and to anyone with valuable to trade.
Remember that those who were young in 1950 are now very old, meaning that all possible "old junk" is surfacing when their homes are now cleaned...

Best regards,
Juhani

Hello Jacques,
About the place of the 2 screws: I noticed that. (And mentioned it in my "P.S." of my first post.
The rectangle of the viewfinder: the finder of the metal version is somewhat better. Perhaps because of the chroming process, the other is not so straight...?
Regards,
Ad

No, Ad, it's a question of position: the rectangle does not seem well centered: probably too low.
To compare with the windows on my two TSVVS which seem correctly centered:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/19122016_TSVVS 005.jpg

That said, I may be wrong: it's perhaps the photo...

Hello Jacques,
No, you are not wrong. The rectangle viewfinder is vertical not well centered. Something lower. And that makes the difference! (On the internet I can't see any TSVVS which has a "lower" viewfinder. So this is OR interesting (and need research) OR a clue that they are fakes...?
Anyway, they look somewhat clumsy...
Regards,
Ads

Hello Jacques,
The viewfinders. The chromed first.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/19122016_PC190501.JPG



http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/19122016_PC190502.JPG

Fake would be easy to make perfect with better tools than back then. And in a fake something this visible would not be left this raw.

Best regards,
Juhani

I think too, Juhani.

What a strange mount for your Tessar, Ilya! Where does it come from? Could you tell the s/n of the lens? The release spring seems a bit special, with its three screws. Well, so, a "no name" more! Finally, they are not so rare! Always no internal number?

Thanks! Jacques.