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Industar-51 Military

Created by sovietcam on 12/23/2007 4:27:23 PM
Last Edited by sovietcam on 12/23/2007 4:31:46 PM  
Located in
Lenses & Optics > Industar

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mike
sovietcam

Switzerland
105 Posts
Posted - Dec 23 2007 :  4:35:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i search the factory for this lens. never seen!
who can help?

Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 23 2007 :  7:38:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

I have one a similar Military lens, but it is called "F-3", made by GOMZ, 400mm / f 4.5 - f 45 and weighs about 6 lbs. It has the same Miltary markings and a serial number of 412773 (so I think it is 1941). The lens has very small and delicate numbers engraved directly on the front element and another set engraved on the back element.

I have seen another Military Industar-51 that a friend owns. It looks like the one you put in the WIKI also has the tiny numbers engraved directly on the glass elements. You may want to look closely around the edges of the elements to see if yours has the numbers. They are very hard to see and are beautifully engraved. I think that your I-51 is not made by KMZ. The logo next to the star and sickle military markings looks like GOMZ, but is not exactly the same (so, maybe a military department or factory of GOMZ?).

For this reason, I don't believe you will find it in the KMZ site. Also, I don't think all military production is shown on the site, possibly because it is not really shown in the same records as the normal production. For example, the later, public versions of surveillance or "spy" cameras, the Zenit MA-1, MA-2, and MF-1 are listed on the site, but the earlier ones such as F-21, Neozit, etc. are not listed, as far as I know. Maybe Zoom can say something about this... or maybe not.


Regards, Bill

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Luiz Paracampo
Luiz Paracampo
Brazil
1868 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  04:10:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit Luiz Paracampo's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is Kazan factory. The ensign is a variation of the pentagonal prism both have a "K" inscript in the ray formation. Kazan has a third one logo a Divergent lens and a ray also forming a "K";
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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  09:08:48 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo

This is Kazan factory.


Nope.
See http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-logos.html ;)
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  10:33:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

Yes, Zoom... thank you. So the I-15 that Sovietcam put in the WIKI is made by the Geodezia Zavod in Moscow.

Regards, Bill

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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  11:02:56 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto


...is made by the Geodezia Zavod in Moscow.


But not for a "fkd 13x18cm" camera... For an "AFA" (aerophotographic camera). For what model exactly -- I don't know...

P.S. According to http://www.zenitcamera.com/catalog/catalog-lenses-1949.html -- to AFA-BA or AFA-21 (but by KMZ)...

Edited by - Zoom on Dec 24 2007 11:09:52 AM
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  3:17:21 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks bill for the answer!

i have seen the numbers of the elements! front element has 04 337, mean element has 03 268 and the back element has 06 301.for what may be the numbers?
regards mike
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  3:32:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote

I don't know why the separate elements have separate numbers, or for that matter any numbers at all engraved on them, however my best guess is that they may have this so that when disassembled for cleaning or maintainence, it can be recorded and they will be re-assembled correctly. It is the Military way!

So your lens is probably made for an aerial surveillance or mapping camera (possibly, a KMZ AFA-BA or AFA-21 camera), by Geodezia Zavod, Moscow, USSR. Made in 1944.

Maybe you can add this information to your catalog entry on our site (Thanks to Zoom for the added info!)

Regards, Bill

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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  3:47:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
zoom
thanks for your answer to the logo! i have seen the logo from geodezia zavod!

for the answer, it`s not a lens for fkd camera. it`s not correct! i have another fkd camera from 1948 with an I-51. absolutely the same lenses. no deviations. on the link, you can see that it not the same lenses. rear part are very difference. the weight of my lens is heavier, ca 600gr.
the lens from the link is for a afa-ba/21 camera.

regards mike
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  4:04:22 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i will add this information to the wiki. but not before i see the same lens. picture 2 (wiki)is absolutly not the same lens (in cross section ), as in the link.
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  4:22:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
an afa-ba camera
http://wp.scn.ru/mig_okb/planes-mig17-sr2
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Bill Parkinson
nightphoto
USA
1027 Posts
My Collection

Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  5:23:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit nightphoto's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think the cross section in the KMZ Objectives catalog just shows the inner "optical block" set of lenses and mechanics... not the outer mount which can be changed to fit various cameras and purposes. Probably I-51, even the military, version was used for a number of different purposes. I have several I-51 for the FKD view cameras and they look the same as your lens, but no military markings... just KMZ.
So maybe your lens was not for an aeronautical camera, instead just for a Soviet Army view camera.

Regards, Bill


Edited by - nightphoto on Dec 24 2007 5:24:12 PM
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Zoom
596 Posts
Posted - Dec 24 2007 :  5:34:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sovietcam


i have another fkd camera from 1948 with an I-51. absolutely the same lenses.


O.K.
It is difficultly to study a details by a photos.

"Geodesia" plant (or "Geodesiya" -- Geodesy) before WWII was only plant which made military aero-cameras (AFAs)...
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts
Posted - Feb 10 2008 :  04:00:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
zoom,

i have make a new entry with an i-51 for aerial camera.
that lens has the same structure, as in the design. everthing directly.
has only 1:4,5!

regards, mike
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mike
sovietcam
Switzerland
105 Posts
Posted - Feb 10 2008 :  04:06:13 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
bill,

you can see the structure of both lens, new wiki entry!
another question: the lens has a X between plant marking and I-51.
for what is that X? and both filter have a marking, last yellow filter picture. what`s that?

thanks and regards, mike
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