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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 09:33:10 AM
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Thanks, Vlad!
Could anyone tell if there is anything new in this book, so we can complete the history of Fed, especially in the forties?
Thanks! Jacques. |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 12:06:50 PM
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| No, Jacques, we already new from this book learn nothing. The main points Vlad at my request, has translated and showed on the forum. You've already read it. |
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Alexander K.
AlexanderK
Germany
590 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 12:29:23 PM
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...and nevertheless I have found something interesting.
We read on page 34:
В 1939 началось серийное производство модифицированной модели фотоаппарата ФЭД-Б
In 1939 it began serial production of the modified camera FED-B
I didn't know anything about serial production of FED-B. So far as I know there were produced about 40 cameras at all.
Regards, Alexander |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 2:51:18 PM
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Thanks, Alexey and Alexander.
For the moment, we know nothing, or almost, about these Fed B.
I just can say that I know two of them, for sure. And both are in the 16xxxx/17xxxx series, so probably made in 1940/41. Perhaps there is too a possible connexion with the Fed Arsenal s/n 00043 which has the holes for a slow speed spring?
But there can be others...
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 3:16:35 PM
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Yes, it is said 42 pieces were done. I've heared this but (as Jacques wrote) there can be others ...
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 3:58:40 PM
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Hello Alfa2
My T-Shirt actually say "21 is only the half the truht" but it's maybe an other story. 40 units is a common guess (by JLP), 42 would be the truth (as Douglas Adams said). ;-)
Best wishes - Guido
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2016 : 6:49:18 PM
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Jacques, I do not agree with the numbers 16xxxx / 17xxxx series that correspond to 1941. if someone does not know or does not remember, I said that in №11 SF 1937 there is mention of 40 copies of the FED-B. These cells were made and tested with the plant. if a bit count, the end of 1937 correspond to №53xxx - 55xxx. It just comes to the appearance of FED-S. Just I want to express an opinion that the FED-b, as a copy of the Leica III did not go into production, but did FED-S hybrid 1/1000 sec, but without a moderator. You all know very well that in this period, and changed the shape of the top cover FED. And as you can find a large amount of wardrobe trunks with cut-retardant. Etc.
I want to just remind you that in the future the camera moderated Zorki-3 is not very well turned out. The quality of the moderator is not satisfied with the manufacturer. Retarder so properly and do not get. We can see it in the figures on the scale of inconsistency.
Someone made a copy when the FED-B number №14x.xxx and then the next generation is mindlessly copy and passes for the truth! |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 04:39:19 AM
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Dear Alexey,
If I understand you correctly (but I am not sure), you think that the 40 "B" prototypes (or so) were prepared by the factory as soon as the 1c begins (around 54xxx). And at the beginning of the S too. So, in 1937/38. Just to discuss, I would say a bit later, when the hole appears in the upper plate...
I completely agree with you about the slow speeds of the Zorki 3, and even of the Leica III (F) in 1933: some had to be re-sent to the factory. So, it's not astonishing that the Fed B was not ready.
But these two late ones I know (in the s/n 16xxxx/17xxxx) seem to me perfectly genuine, without the usual Leica parts. You think they were made later with original Fed parts?
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 07:07:17 AM
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| Jacques! I believe that the plant fed tried to make the camera FED-B, this changed the shape of the top cover to fit the mechanism of the retarder. Fed-B not happened, the details were already prepared for a great full series. Do not go to waste. Got FED-S. All this happened in 1937. More information on FED-B log SF 1940- 1941 no! |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 08:30:50 AM
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Sorry, Alexey, I am a bit lost!
Of course, I know about the changing of cover and the hole in the upper plate which were necessary for the connexion to slow speeds. A copy of the 1933 Leica III(F) for these two details. And I know too about the 40 Fed "B" only, instead of a full series.
But I am less sure about these 40 Fed "B" made in 1937 only. You say that the others must be fakes. I doubt about Alain's which was X-rayed by Dr Milos Vladek and that I had in hand. I doubt too about the other one (seen only by photos, that one) which was exactly like Alain's, without any Leica parts, which are so common on "B" fakes. Of course, I can be wrong, as I am further than you about information!
By the way, what is N° 11 SF 1937? 
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 09:17:19 AM
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Hi Jacques,
SF = Soviet Photo Magazine, Alexey meant that there is no mention of FED-B in those magazine issues for 1940-1941 as the project was abandoned.
Cheers,
Vlad. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 10:14:49 AM
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Thanks, Vlad and Alexey.
Note that both of these late Fed "B" have a shutter box in white metal, not in brass, as in 1937. I wonder too about the Fed-Arsenal s/n 00043, with its holes to mount a slow speed spring, in a shutter box also in white metal.
Well, difficult to be sure, with the few number of cameras, and the time which passed... And I will have to learn Russian in another life!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Milo Schekkerman
Valkir1987
Netherlands
200 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 1:09:19 PM
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| Thanks for uploading! Great :) |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 3:02:46 PM
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Sorry, I am a bit deaf or old!
I had not understand that the uploading was from 1937...
Thanks, Alexey!
I am much impressed too by the sports finder, the selftimer and the 6,3/100mm (in fact, perhaps the 5,9/100mm) which are mounted on 1b-s cameras... I don't speak of the other accessories. So all that was really made before the 1c camera series ?
Really, I will have to learn Russian in my next life...
Jacques. |
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 3:05:00 PM
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Levonsa, many thanks for scan of the article and for marking about 40 made items of FED-B.
Hello Guido
Thanks for your remark, I see I haven't read JLP carefully.
P.S. Great text on your site about fake/genuine FED-Zorki. 
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levonsa
levonsa
Russia
248 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2016 : 3:12:16 PM
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Jacques try to start learning Russian language in this life! Deafness is not the problem! Deaf Beethoven had finished writing the 9th Symphony! |
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2016 : 01:03:11 AM
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Yes, Levonsa is right, you can learn Russian. Russian is easy because it is very similar to Polish. 
Only letters are little bit different.
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 21 2016 : 05:18:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by levonsa
Jacques try to start learning Russian language in this life! Deafness is not the problem! Deaf Beethoven had finished writing the 9th Symphony!
It's not a question of hearing, rather of synaptic connections!
To be more serious, I would specially thank some forumers who changed, for me, the tonality of our discussions: no doubt that scans of original papers explain the past, even if, in themselves, these papers are not proofs at 100%. Altix, Alzo, Alexey and others: thanks.
Now, the problem of translation is real, for me. Perhaps I am going to collect Focas or Periflexes!
Amitiés. Jacques. |
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts |
Posted - Jun 22 2016 : 1:43:56 PM
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I think this scanned article by Bunimovich is from SF. Which year it comes from ?
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2016 : 2:53:23 PM
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Scanned article contains answer for some questions we have discussed on this forum.
I have to say I have underrated organization of FED factory.
There was no cooperation with Leitz.
Lenses were calculated and produced in FED factory.
There were 2 developing departmants (I hope the word цех means here department) which compete each other.
......
If I understood sth wrong pls let me know. |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2016 : 5:21:33 PM
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Yes, Alfa, and thanks for your abstract.
OK, there was no official cooperation with Leitz in 1940 or before. But Makarenko himself wrote about a visit of Leitz engineers at Fed's in the years 1935-36...
To go further, I wonder about this magazine: independant or not? And always about these late Fed B which would be fakes. I know three of them now, with the possible connexion with the Fed-Arsenal 00043.
But as already said, I am really far from information...
Amitiés. Jacques.
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2016 : 07:11:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jacques M.
I wonder about this magazine: independant or not?
Here the answer is very easy. It was state-owned. There was no independent publishers in communism. It was scrictly controlled by state.
Author is Bunimovich, the same guy who wrote this old book about FED. His book (or books) was translated into Polish.
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Edited by - Alfa2 on Jun 24 2016 12:45:54 PM |
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2016 : 07:35:59 AM
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Thanks, Alfa, for your confirmation! |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2016 : 10:49:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfa2
Here the answer is very easy. It was state-owned. There was no independent publishers in communism. It was scrictly controlled by state.
The political system called «Socialism» (https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socjalizm). Accuracy in terms of is very important.
In addition, you simply wrong.
Publication of the "Sovetskoe Foto" (Soviet Photography) magazine started in Moscow in 1926 under the auspices of the joint stock company "Ogonyok" publishing house. I repeat: the joint stock company. |
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2016 : 12:45:24 PM
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Zoom, thank you for your explanation and link in Polish.
I remember system called Socialism very well. I lived in this system many years. Maybe it was the joint stock company which was possible because of NEP - Новая экономическая политика 1921 - 1929 (translating into english it is New Economic Policy - private companies were possible). But NEP was discontinued after 1929. After that all companies had to belong to state. History of FED started after 1929 and the article was written after that time point too.
In Poland in every factory or shop floor there was very important person called 1st secretary of communistic party. His authority was bigger than authority of director of factory or shop floor. The person took care about political correctness of everything what happened there. I don't want to discribe this more, it's a long story.
Nevertheless, the article is written by Bunimovich and this is not anonymous person for us. He is very good source of informations. Better can only be original documents but here we have condensed knowledge.
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Edited by - Alfa2 on Jun 24 2016 12:47:20 PM |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2016 : 5:11:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfa2
After that all companies had to belong to state.
Sorry, you are wrong again. By the end of 1950's more than 114,000 non-state industrial cooperative enterprises were in the USSR. They produced 5.9% of the gross output of the industry. For example, up to 40% of all furniture, up to 70% of all metal utensils, over a third of knitwear, almost all the children's toys. There were 100 design offices, 22 experimental laboratories and even two research institutes... And all was non-state.
Why I'm talking about the end of the 1950's? Because in 1959--1960, alas, everything was destroyed by one man, which is also probably thought that socialism is when all companies had to belong to the State. But this is not the case...
quote:
Originally posted by Alfa2
In Poland in every factory or shop floor there was very important person called 1st secretary of communistic party. His authority was bigger than authority of director of factory or shop floor. The person took care about political correctness of everything what happened there.
You wrote some nonsense. Are you really lived at that time? In Polska Rzeczpospolita Ludowa?
At first read this article: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podstawowa_Organizacja_Partyjna
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Edited by - Zoom on Jun 24 2016 5:29:48 PM |
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altix
Ukraine
152 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 02:02:17 AM
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Dear Alfa2
Of course you are wrong. The Soviet Union was the most democratic state in the world. Especially in thirties. The people have two options: to write the denunciation on the neighbor or to sit in the concentration camp. It is very democratic procedure. One could decide what to do. Here is for example the mug of Soviet rocket constructor Sergey Korolev.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2562016_2.jpg
The political system called socialism was very good. The people who were lucky to join the concentration camps obtained from the generous State similar mugs as well as felt boots, quilted jacket and one spoon. That was given absolutely for free! Indeed the State took care about citizens on the highest level. By the way, almost all newspapers were free from the influence of censorship and propaganda.
You should also remember how Soviet and German brothers tried to save Poland in 1939. You should not think about this period as the start of the war and the beginning of occupation. You know that Soviet and German socialists wanted to make your nation prosperous and bring the true democracy to Polish and Jewish people. Nowadays the brave ancestors of great fathers have brought peace and prosperity to the East part of Ukraine.
The only one bad man came just latter who spoiled all this. He was always drunk jumped with the corncob and wanted to show "Kuzkina mat'". He has also stolen the production of Exakta cameras and brought it from KMZ to stupid Ukrainians. But this is another story.
Heil Stalin!
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Alfa2
Poland
349 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 05:18:55 AM
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Zoom, I can see you know Polish very well. But I don't want to discuss about politics. I'm fan of old cameras not of old politics.
Altix, thank you for this post. I'm totally with you. I didn't want to be so sharp.
Jacques, regarding publishers - this was beginning of the discusion.
In general in Socialism/Communism
- independent thinking - was possible.
- independent talking - was not possible because someone could make denunciation on you. I mean talking even when you were sitting at work with your 2 colleagues. You never knew whom you were talking to.
- independent publishing - nobody knew what does it mean.
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Edited by - Alfa2 on Jun 25 2016 06:03:51 AM |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 1:13:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alfa2
Zoom, I can see you know Polish very well. But I don't want to discuss about politics. I'm fan of old cameras not of old politics.
Dear Alfa2, so I beg you: do not attempt to give historical examples. You do not know history. There is no policy, there are only historical facts. Facts may we like or not, but they have already happened and nothing can be change. You need to know the facts and do not need to muddle them. But for somebody, however, it is more convenient to hide behind ignorance.
By the way, Altix wrote a bullsh!t (they're all gone mad, as I see), but you agree with him... :( |
Edited by - Zoom on Jun 25 2016 1:41:26 PM |
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 1:37:17 PM
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Dear Zoom, I beg you: Please don't blame Altix for his maybe humorouse presentation of a not so beautiful time in our history. Each coin has it's two sides.
Best wishes - Guido |
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Zoom
596 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 1:58:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Guido
Dear Zoom, I beg you: Please don't blame Altix for his maybe humorouse presentation of a not so beautiful time in our history. Each coin has it's two sides.
Thank you, Guido. We are talking about the history of cameras. But when we pass to the history, that connected with the policy...Then begins not just lies, but hatred. Why? It's only history... Everything has already happened and nothing to fix.
This is demonic possession, the words are powerless here, and I'm not an exorcist. |
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Guido Studer
Guido
Switzerland
362 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 2:56:50 PM
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Hello Zoom
I absolutly know what you mean and I have no problem with. But if you feel been attacked it's maybe not that important because we (at least me) understand the mechanism of the "cold war". Yes, it was decades ago but we are at this point again in this times again. So please don't expect we don't be aware of the actual history. There's nothing demonic, no possession, absolutly no hate! Even if it's a popular idea about all of this. Please understand that we (all I think) are with you, without any hate, any false ideas and any bad wishes. I know it's hard to understand if you think anyone is against you, but it's not true, we (me at least) are with you, personally.
Yes, the past is history, no one can change it.
Best wishes - Guido
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Jacques M.
France
2604 Posts |
Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 3:57:29 PM
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Of course, the history of every country has its black sides, and sometimes, some sides are very black.
The problem (mine, anyway) was to know if, in this article, Bunimovitch knew all the reality. Or if he could tell all he knew. Probably not. But it's only a confirmation: even now, it's extremely difficult to have a real impartial view of these 1940/48 years in FSU countries: see the non-ending discussions about Fed 1e, for example. Or even the difficulties Alzo had to access the classified archives about the famous Fed-Arsenal.
So, facts are not square. Everybody can (must?) have too a personal opinion about the past and present times. And to say that I completely understand Altix and Alfa doesn't mean that I hate anybody...
Jacques.
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Vladislav Kern
Vlad
USA
4252 Posts
My Collection
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Posted - Jun 25 2016 : 5:08:28 PM
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Gentlemen, let's stay away from political discussions, please take all information objectively from the point of view and the context intended by the author of publication and not influenced by modern political environment as opinions will differ and this isn't a political forum. Please don't make me scrub this thread.
Thank you,
Vlad.
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FED - Pages of Biography. Book - full download. Ru
