Three LTM Sonnar-Jup 4/13,5cm

Hello,

I have received lately a beautiful 4/13,5cm Sonnar. LTM, wartime and with an "M" for meter. So, probably made by Zeiss (for the lens barrel and the glasses) and by KMZ for the mount.

But finally, I am not so sure...
This Sonnar has the s/n 2712580 and belongs to a batch made for Contaxes. Just after, there is a small series of 10 of these 4/13,5cm Sonnars which are made for "Fed fыr Russen" by the Thiele. And in the 270xxxx/271xxxx series, which includes batches of Sonnars and Biogons, we often find nowadays LTM lenses "M" marked whereas they should be with baпonnet.

So, these lenses could have been leftovers at the end of WW2, and changed into LTM "M" by Zeiss at the demand of the Russian Army, like the other series officially made for Fed.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/622015_DSCF1787.JPG

Just two photos more, to compare with my 1951 Jupiter 11.
The mount is almost the same. And the set of 2 screws which is on the two lenses (though not exactly at the same place) is a common feature on the Zeiss lenses.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/622015_DSCF1786.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/622015_DSCF1784.JPG

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hello,

I have changed the title of this post. I have just received a third Sonnar 4/13,5cm, and it would be interesting to discuss about the differences (and the history, if we can!) of these lenses.

Here they are:

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1842.JPG

First, there is absolutely no official LTM 4/13,5cm Sonnar ever made by Zeiss for Leicas. The only ones officially recorded by the "Thiele" were made for... Fed! (610 lenses in 1946). These Sonnars are not rare, but not so easy to find.

From right to left, the s/n 2712506, 2712580 (same batch) and the Jup 11 s/n 5101897. The second only can be dismounted to check the Zeiss number. On the two others, the main screw is stuck.

The three ones have the same look and construction. They are made of aluminium, weigh between 258g/268g (my 4/13,5cm Triotar in heavy chrome is not far from 450g). And the lenses have the same blue-purple coating.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1859.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1860.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1861.JPG

The first one (2712506) was regulated for Leicas (with the small "m"), the two others for Feds (capital "M"). Normal for the Jup (last one), more curious for the Sonnar in the middle.

The reference mark for the diaphragm ring consists of
- a black triangle for the first Sonnar,
- a black point for the second,
- a red point for the Jup!


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1843.JPG

And the "4" on the depth of field scale is "closed" on the first Sonnar, "open" on the two other lenses. ZKs have open "4" too.

As for the set of two screws, on the distance ring, it exists on the three lenses. But not at the same place:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1846.JPG

Now, some details on the distance scale. Always from the older sonnar towards the Jup 11.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1856.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1857.JPG



http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/342015_DSCF1858.JPG

Of course, there are differences. The engravings are not exactly the same, and the metallurgy of the reference lines is different too.

So, I am a bit perplex.
I don't have doubts about the authenticity of the lenses. But if the general making is the same, every lens has many slight differences.
We will never know, alas, what happened exactly to Zeiss in those grey years...

If I had to imagine, I would see the first Sonnar ("m" mark) as made unofficially in the factory. Perhaps the second one too ("M" mark) at the demand of the Red Army. This lens could really be the forerunner of the ZK, like some collapsible 2/5cm Sonnars are.
And certainly the body of the Jup was made by Zeiss too, before it was finished at KMZ's.

Please, your ideas! Thanks!

Amitiйs. Jacques.