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01/24/2020 08:34

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Hello,

OK, Enzo, you are right. But it's certainly a stone more towards Germany, after many details of construction, for example the numbers stamped inside and the use of brass for the body (cf the Jena-Contaxes). Probably, we are not very far from the end of the story...

I wait for this moment, like you all!Big smile

Thanks to Vlad to have found this doc, and delighted to have seen Bill's sign!

Amitiés. Jacques.

01/24/2020 10:30

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Enzo,

to be honest, it only "confirms the rumors" about German origin that were going around in the past, and it made me question things now, because in the recent years I've been of the opinion that this entire camera production is fake made in Ukraine for collectors market, made by very skilled people in post-soviet factory conditions (same ones who possibly made FED-Sport, Zorki-75, Zorki-250, FED Stemar, etc) as I'm yet to see any accompanying documentation. Also the fact that I haven't seen a single VTS-VS camera in bad condition and they all work so smoothly like new (cameras from 1940s, even German ones usually have issues with deteriorating lubrication, yet to see an aged version of it).

So I agree with you, this doesn't completely prove anything, just made me stop and think.. I am also skeptical about the "2012" dating of this document, this could've been written knowing that these cameras already exist.. so yes.. definitely more information than we had before, but I still want to see a manual or a box for this camera...

And Bill, great to hear from you!!

Best regards,
Vlad

01/24/2020 11:04

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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad

Also since this is a fairly recent document with authors listed, maybe it's possible to track down the authors for more information.


The two authors of the 2012 document (E.I. Dolgov, S.V. Sergeev) are officers of the Russian Armed Forces (reservists) and have written several books on the history of the topographical service of the last 200 years.

https://www.worldcat.org/title/istoriia-chastei-topograficheskoi-sluzhby/oclc/1005514753&referer=brief_results

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Only dead fish follow the stream ...

01/24/2020 11:26

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quote:
So I agree with you, this doesn't completely prove anything, just made me stop and think.. I am also skeptical about the "2012" dating of this document, this could've been written knowing that these cameras already exist.. so yes.. definitely more information than we had before, but I still want to see a manual or a box for this camera...

And Bill, great to hear from you!!

Best regards,
Vlad


the 2012 document is authentic.

"" In February 2017, the 205th anniversary of the topographical service of the armed forces of the Russian Federation was celebrated. For the 200th anniversary, the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has prepared a book "The history of topographic service parts". The authors are: reserve officer of the Topographical Service of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Doctor of Military Sciences, Chief Researcher of the Research Center (detection and navigation support) of the 27th Central Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, who became part of the Center for Research and Analysis of Problems Security Information Agency "Arms of Russia", E. Dolgov and Reserve Officer of the Topographical Service of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, Researcher at the Scientific Research Center (support topographical and navigation) of the 27th Central Scientific Research Institute of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation S. Sergeev.""

http://istgeodez.com/istorii-chastey-topograficheskoy-sluzhbyi-neotemlemyie-chasti-istorii-otechestva/

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Only dead fish follow the stream ...

01/24/2020 15:16

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Yes, this publishing house does not exist anymore, I am trying to get ahold of Tatyana Dundukova who was the general director and also sent an email to a topography society expert maybe he can advise.

01/24/2020 15:21

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quote:
Originally posted by Vlad

Yes, this publishing house does not exist anymore, I am trying to get ahold of Tatyana Dundukova who was the general director and also sent an email to a topography society expert maybe he can advise.


You are doing a great job.
In the registers of the Freiberg municipality, no clue can be found on the factory???

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Only dead fish follow the stream ...

01/25/2020 12:33

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In my opinion, the research should go through the papers of the Carl Zeiss archive, now including all what was collected from the various sites belonging to the Eastern part of the Carl Zeiss Foundation and Zeiss Ikon - Zeiss Jena and "VEB" Carl Zeiss Jena: the amount of papers is huge, dating from the "SMAD" to the "Wende".

The first "VTS-VS" camera I've ever seen in my hands, was in 1990 at a shop in Venice, taken by a Russian gentleman, who took many other pieces. Pity, that camera was already "reserved" for a collector.

01/25/2020 14:11

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Hello again everyone,

I have an update, I got in touch with a renown Soviet topographer and historian in the field. He is well aware of this camera and told me that he discussed the topic with the authors of this book at one point in time, and that they do no have any more specific information beyond what they have printed about it. He had not heard anything else either about it in their field...

So I think Enzo's route of starting to dig the DDR (GDR) archives is the only alternative that we have left.

Best regards,
Vlad.

01/27/2020 03:44

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The factory exists again: https://www.fpm.de/index.php?c=1&s=historie
When you read the history you get doubts in the production of a camera:
8.Mai 1945
Besetzung der Firma durch die Rote Armee, teilweise Demontage der Maschinen und Ausrüstung, 15 Arbeiter erledigen kleinere
Reparaturen an Vermessungs-Geräten und -Instrumenten

Occupation of the company by the Red Army, partial dismantling of the machines and equipment, 15 workers make smaller repairs to surveying equipment and instruments

28.Okt. 1950
Gründung des Betriebes VEB Freiberger Präzisionsmechanik
1958
Anbau Betriebsgebäude
1962
Erweiterung durch Neubau
1966
Zusammenarbeit mit Carl Zeiss Jena, Erweiterung der traditionellen Produktpalette durch Geräte der Röntgen-Analysenmesstechnik

There could be documents in the State Archives: Feinmechanik-Optik (H) 1946
Enthält u.a.: Max Hildebrandt GmbH (Freiberg), Karl W. Höhnel (Glashütte), Hoh & Hahne (Leipzig)
StA-D, Rep. 11384 Nr. 1996
and in the "Technische Sammlung Dresden"

01/27/2020 07:48

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I am not sure that the question of time is always pertinent.

In Jena, for example, the dismantlement and the production of the very first batches of Jena-Contaxes were simultaneous in 1946, and the "running" production was made a bit later, from 1947, with the original parts by a very reduced team.
The same for Arsenal, where there was certainly a "contraction of time" (happy Soviets!) between the production of some very rare Feds (1946), the production of the first Kievs (1947) and the use of the three Jena lines for the running production.

That was only my cogitation about that thrilling thread...Big smile

Amitiés. Jacques.


01/27/2020 11:28

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No it's definitely Freiberg. From the same poster "Kot" on VK, it says that this theodolite is a copy of German theodolite Th2a (Max Hilderberandt factory),
and in 1945 in the Freiberg in MaxHildenbrandt factory there is a VTS workshop that started to make this same Th2a with VTS-VS markigns and later under Soivet name of OTS-62 (VTS) after move of the VTS workshop to Baltics.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2712020_UOCFZsJsUoA.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2712020_aiwcqFtK79g.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2712020_z850IJUE5UI.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2712020_8fwIvhupD4w.jpg

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