Start s/n 5800366

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Originally posted by okynek


Yes I see different handle in Princelle! So known at list 2 existing turners! May be more? Anyone?

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See "Sovetskoe foto" ("Soviet photo") magazine, 1962 year, number 1, pages 30--31. Article by S. Marchenko "Turel k Startu" (The ring mount to 'Start')...
I think that all this devices were hand-made (of course, made in a machine-building plants, but illegally). May be some -- in KMZ... ;)

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See "Sovetskoe foto" ("Soviet photo") magazine, 1962 year, number 1, pages 30--31. Article by S. Marchenko "Turel k Startu" (The ring mount to 'Start')...

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Where can I see "Sovetskoe Foto"? Is it on the Net?

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Originally posted by okynek

Where can I see "Sovetskoe Foto"? Is it on the Net?

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No... :( May be somewhere, but I never saw this article in the Web.

P.S.
The first page of this article:

why "illegaly" ?
thre was in most factories a challenge "1000 ideas" to promote genious workers ....but "THE" plan

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Originally posted by mermoz37

why "illegaly" ?

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Because illegaly... Because a worker should work, carry the output programme, but not filch a metal, use a factory lathes and so on for himself using or for a private sales. In the socialism or in the capitalism -- all is same.

Alain, you have to live there to understand.
1000 ideas??? That was a propaganda!!!
In reality if you offer to change, or improve anything, if you find ways how to save money, or offer new product, you momentarily became enemy number one to your boss and all the bosses of your boss and all they bosses too. They was telling to you straight up: "Are you need more then we do? What, you like to be special?"
Why do you think for 70 years Fed could not get out of basically same camera, invented by the way by Leitz?
So the only way to make something better is to make it illegally. And usually you will have every opportunity for this. But better not to be caught!
And this is why I’m personally value such homemade items as much as prototypes of the cameras. Not same with most of the newly improved cameras.

Okynek, I do know that trend very well.. People got their government jobs and they did not want any change, they come to work, spend couple of hours working then doing god knows what.. it all really depended on the directorship... but I did notice one trend.. I am from Republic Of Georgia (Грузия) so things tend to go there exactly the way Okynek described, slow, never changing, people slacking off at work, I remember going to my dad's work place and women sat there and knitted most of the day instead of programming...

...but that being said, I noticed that the closer to the center (Moscow), the more honest people seemed to behave in their workplace, people actually really did do the 5 year plan seriously and were more "communistic" and worked harder... Look at Kransnogorsk Zavod, look at how many great ideas they had and then compare it to FED for example... It does seem like KMZ directorship was closer to the TSK (ЦК) and was more pushing for progress and for workers new ideas, maybe because directorship was afraid of the leadership being close by... And I'm talking about 70s-80s era...

Vlad

Still very few of such homemade creations, with help of the publications, end up on production line. This happens with FM/SM radio published in “Radio” magazine, with computer “Specialis” from magazine “Modelist-Constructor”.
Can it be happened with Alain's turel to? Can KMZ, using drawings from “Sovietskoe Foto” made few of this turners officially?

There are prototypes workshops in those big factories that made all sorts of new products. Could this be made by one of these shops? Then it is legal.

Vlad I agreed with you. KMZ was more exception then a rule. Arsenal came up with few really innovative cameras too, like Kiev 10 - big departure from Conax. But Fed and Belomo not so. Fed may have some excuses. They mostly did military stuff and parts for aviation. Camera was to them unwelcome residue, (or so I hear). But same was with all camera factories, specially with Arsenal who has more then 30.000 employee with less then 500 involved in camera making.

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Originally posted by okynek

...Fed may have some excuses. They mostly did military stuff and parts for aviation. Camera was to them unwelcome residue, (or so I hear). But same was with all camera factories...

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Indeed, all Soviet cameras factories, with the exception of FED, were under MOP -- Ministry of defense industry (armament). FED was in MAP -- Ministry of aviation industry (air force, of course ;).

hummmm....
could you tell me why some engeneers and technician get some factory work at home ? (like some capitalists did)
i havve experiences from Baikonour (joint venture between french-Soviet factories about spatial research and satellite launch) and we had no problems to make out off series materails when a good idea appear...
but one more time , ideology is a very bad basiis for discuss...

Alain I wonder if you can rephrase your question?
People took work to finish it at home, because they fill obligated, they believe work what they do can make the difference. They believed in something. Or may be they have enthusiasm. And on the back of the mind they was hoping that they will be noted and may be rewarded or promoted. They did it knowing that nothing of above will happed. The good job and salary will go to relatives or friends of the bosses. But, you know, hope dying last. So they did, they work. Arsenal known to have folding beds next to the machinery and special places where after 12 hours shift you can relax for few hour and get back to work. This constantly happens on the end of the month. Or may be that was just tails floating in town? Company I work with make workers work Saturdays and Sundays, and for 12 hours/day, when they have to meet monthly quote. Hopefully things change now?
May be I did not understand you question correctly?

ok , i agree this information.
thanks

I had a Three Lens Turret Zenit E Made in 1980, unhappily it (and Me) were victims of theft. A pity.
Those Turret Starts are simply fantastic.
but...
Who had ever seen a Lightmeter Pentaprism Start?
The Exposure meter is the same found in Iskra 2 cameras.

Do you have it ????? Is it made by KMZ ???? Amazing!!! I never heared about lightmeeter on Start. May be on Start-3?

Zoom will tell us......

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Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo

Zoom will tell us......

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Thank you, Luiz... ;)
But it is too much uncertainty. I, alas, do not know all... :(
Indeed, there was Start-3 (1963 year)*, but all details are unknown.

*) -- here there is a mention about it:
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/history/four-millionth-camera.html
"With automatics..." -- it must be lightmeter...

It is strange to me that KMZ abandon Start line. Very few lens was made. Probably push from the top because Start was in direct competition with Kiev SLRs?

Okynek, Start was 900-something roubles.. (about 4 months of engineer salary) very few could afford it, thus I think they made so little..

Vlad