Kiev/Contax from the German point of view

Dear Kiev and other soviet cameras enthusiasts from http://www.ussrphoto.com.

I regret that you are unable to follow my thread on http://rangefinder.ru/ due to the language barrier. My main idea was to bring together some pieces of information scattered through (mostly German) literature and present them to the Russian-speaking auditorium. My target is to clarify some strange facts and inconsistencies about the start of Kiev camera production. I am very appreciated to German authors who spend hours searching the Jena archives. Without their work the information that is available in this thread would be based mostly on rumors. In the future I will try to access the Kyiv Arsenal's archive (if it is possible and if it is still exists). I've planned also to use some information from your resource if you don't mind. Actually, today I bought Kiev 3 #52472 (without A prefix) and referred to your site to get some insight into the differences in finish with other Kievs of this period. I was pleased to discover that you discuss this thread.

The German colleagues who is interested to read the translated here material in German would be able to contact me soon on your site and I would send the scanned pages from the books in pdf form. I hope you will not be against my translation into Russian of the Bernd Otto article that was posted by Jacques M.?

with best regards, altix

Hi Altix!

It's really a great pleasure!
Thanks for all the information you gave us through rangefinder.ru. Sometimes difficult to read, I must say, as a non-Russian (and non_German!) speaker...

We are several here to collect Contax and Contax/Jena. And many to have early Kievs. So, if you have a question or another about these cameras, please don't hesitate.

Vlad will answer your question about the possibility to use information coming from our site. But I really, I don't see any problem.

Thanks for your work again.

Amitiйs. Jacques.

quote:

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Originally posted by altix...The German colleagues who is interested to read the translated here material in German would be able to contact me soon on your site and I would send the scanned pages from the books in pdf form. I hope you will not be against my translation into Russian of the Bernd Otto article that was posted by Jacques M.?

with best regards, altix

---

PM sent

Dear Jacques M. and xya

I will prepare all my material about Contax Jena and Kiev that I have at the moment (mostly all in German) and share it in some way with people from this site. You definitely know some sources so I would omit them. I will soon finish the thread on the Russian site. Hope that there is still possibility to work with Arsenal's archive. Hope that people there would understand why this work is important.

For me Kievs were always very special cameras (since in my family we had one) and by no means obsolete. They are great cameras for using and interesting objects for collecting.

I was asked the question if I could say something about the history of Moskva camera. Unfortunately, I do not have much information. I think without the use of Archives in Krasnogorsk there is almost no chance to find something new. I would still recommend to look at the book Herbert Blumtritt, Die Geschichte der Dresdner Fotoindustrie, Lindemanns 2000. I do not have this book but it appears that there is a good description of Zeiss Ikon factory dismantle. This book could give some hints about the destiny of Super Ikonta parts for Moskva.

One idea that I got today about Kiev 3 (finally I got one from 1952). The knob for exposure settings that bears DIN inscription comes definitelly from Dresden. In Jena they tried to assemble several Contax III but they did not have any contact with the manufacturer of the selen cells. They probably used some spare parts from Dresden but did not succeed to put Contax III in the production line. Probably this idea is already known to you.

With best regards
altix

Hello Altix,

it's a great pleasure to see you here, I was absolutely floored by the thread on rangefinder.ru, you did some amazing research, bravo! Regarding usage of content from this site, it's completely fine, it would be great though you could reference the original authors but other than that we are a community site so all content can be used freely.

Best regards,
Vlad.

By the way Altix, I have to compliment you on your English, I think it's much better than mine and I lived half my life in United States

Oh, thank you, Vladislav

My English is not so good. I need to get accustomed to the peculiar feature on your site that I cannot correct my mistakes Need to be more careful. Sometimes I construct the sentences in a Russian- or German-like style. You have here tonnes of useful information that I started to read more systematically. Now I know more about the early Kievs and how one can distinguish Jena Contax from the Dresden one.

I promise that I would cite your site properly with reference to a particular member if I would use some citation or photo.

If you don't mind, I could duplicate here some information (translated into my awful English) that i think would be interesting to the other members. In particular I could translate some documents presented in Russian or German or some key phrases from documents. Just few things that I consider worth to be mentioned here.

I will start to scan German books and share them with xya. There are all references on Jena archive that I omitted on the rangefinder.ru site.

And I very appreciate what you are doing here, guys!

http://www.zeisscamera.com/doc_instructions1948.shtml

I was aware of this strange instruction book for Jena Contax. Just today I have read it through and found some interesting thing (probably it is obvious for Jena Contax experts). Look at this page:



It is quite clear that the other font represents the modifications made in 1948 to update the Dresden Contax instruction. What I find interesting are two marked sentences. Indeed, the constructors in Jena tried to produce the trial tree parts day-light loading spools on the available equipment. They made one or two but it was too expensive. (you can reed it in Kuc's book) That the reason why this phrase appeared.

hello all,

altix scanned the pages and sent them to me. many thanks to him. altogether it's more than 400 pages. so please be patient I'll try to do my best. the first part should be ready within 10 days.

kind regards

That is not the whole information I have in German. I scanned and sent to xya the whole book concerning the history of Zeiss Oberkochen. There are just few chapters relevant to our discussion. I thought that xya can enjoy reading the whole book some day. But it is not worth to translate everything from there.

I want to share with you one postcard that I got recently from ebay auction. It is a letter written by Walter Erdering (if I correctly recognized the name) and sent from Jena to Potsdam. It is dated by 17.11.1946 so a few days before the dismantle of Jena factory. The 100. anniversary of Carl Zeiss remained only on the stamps of such letters. Nobody would celebrate it in Jena officially that day.

I think that in order to hide the content from Russian censor this letter was written with such terrible script. I am sorry for my translation. Hope that native speakers will correct me and probably decipher the last sentence in the message.





Liebe Eltern!

Heute zum Feierabend (es ist 18:00)
finde ich schnell einige Minuten
Zeit Euch ein paar Zeilen zu schreiben.
Bei uns ist, wie fuer je wiЯt Hoch-
betrieb (wahrscheinlich wegen der 100 Jahr-
Feier?) Habe furchtbar viel zu tun. Motor-
rad habe ich nicht mehr. Es ist mir
( unklar??) geworden, hat dem (Physiker ??)
??????
Brief folgt.
Herzl. GrueЯe Euer -- Walter

Dear parents!

Today in the evening (it is 18:00)
I was able to find hastily a few
minutes of time to write you a few lines.
It looks like we are in a rush-
hour (probably due to the 100 years
anniversary?) I have terribly many things to do.
I do not have the motorcycle any more. It is
(unclear?) for me, ????
The letter will follow

with best wishes Your Walter

Hello,

I've received email from our dear friend and collector Dr. Milos Mladek from Vienna today, he was kind enough to correct the end of the postcard:

---
"Motorrad hab ich nicht mehr. Es ist mir untreu geworden, hat den Besitzer gewechselt. Brief folgt"

"Do not have the motocycle any more. It has become unfaithful to me, has changed the owner. A letter will follow"

And between the lines I can almost read: "The motocycle has been stolen from me". Remember: November 1946.
---

Cheers,
Vlad.

P.S. I am having some technical issues with images being uploaded to the forum, so bear with me I'll try to fix it as soon as possible.

Thanks,
Vlad.

Dear Vlad, thank you for your last post. I am very appreciated to Dr. Milos Mladek for his corrections. It is astonishing how he managed to recognize the script. Thank you!

I decided to translate a piece of the article about zeissians in Krasnogorsk. The original you can find here: http://www.krasnogorsk.info/inside/modules/news/article.php?storyid=4113

Red Hills: republic Bruski
...The school existed until 1946. In the documents of NKVD Department of war prisoners and internee (starting from 1946 - Department of the Interior, MVD), USSR, it is stated that the territory with 5 cottages is enclosed by fence and barbwire and is called "The object #40".

After the war the territory of "Object #40" remained uninhabited for a long time. But already in autumn 1946 the territory was settled by the German specialists with their families. They were workers and engineers from the factory Carl Zeiss Jena. 107 specialists came to support technically the factory #369 (Zavod #369). They and their families (altogether 297 people) were settled on the territory of "Object #40".
(to be continued)



For establishing the proper order on the Object #40
I order:
1.
The head of workshop #22, comrade Buhartsev V.F. (corrected to Dobronrav) should repair (i.e. should organize and supervise the repair -altix) the fence along the whole perimeter of the object and reequip the object entrance checkpoint to the special commandant’s office. The works should be finished until 20.VI.48.

2.
Comrade Sidorovich A.V. should establish the twenty-four-hour duty of commandant's office inspectors starting from 20.VI.48.

3.
The inspectors have to fill in the absence register of the foreign specialists and their family members.

4.
To deny the absence of the foreign specialists on the object with the duration more than 2 hours excluding the time of their appearance at work at the factory.

5.
The absence of foreign specialists and their family members with the duration more than 2 hours should be allowed only by showing the permit in written form signed by myself or by the employment department assistant director, comrade Kiryushin.

6.
Comrade Sidorovich should investigate each case of the breach of the established order and should report me or to the employment bureau assistant director, comrade Kiryushin, on every accident in order to take the appropriate measures.

Director of the factory #393
Ministry of armaments of USSR
Skaezhinsky

Order is dated by 5.0.1948.

Interesting!

Several authors insist on the fact that the German workers were treated better than their Russian colleagues. But no doubt: they were prisoners of war, with their family.

These texts are fascinating. Thanks, altix...

Jacques.

Dear Jacques M.

According to the book "Carl Zeiss in Jena" vol. 3 the life of some zeissians was much better than the Russian specialists. The top German specialists got very good accommodations. Somebody lived even in small castle ("Schlosschen") built by some Russian aristocrat before revolution. Food supply was better than for many Russian citizens. Zeissians in Isjum (near Kyiv) were very pleased to have flats with central heating, warm toilets and hot water. Somebody wrote even to Jena that they would die from hunger in post-war Germany but they have good chance to survive in Soviet Union. Alas, they had to pay for all these advantages by obeying the strict rules and were restricted in their movement across the cities and suburbs. I think that was also good for the sake of their own safety.

Cheers

Red Hills: republic Bruski

One building of the former Central anti-fascists school for war prisoners complex (at that time it was the hous #59, today the hous #15 on Narodnogo opolchenia St.) was hended them over. There their children were studying and there took place the meetings of anti-fascist activists. The special object for German specialists existed until 1952 when Germans left Krasnogorsk town.

"The settlement near Brushaty, the metal lattice-fence, seedlings pricked off on the line, no one is allowed to pluck green pea,- recollects Galina Petrovna Tumanova.- Women wore trousers during summer and winter seasons that was astonishing for our citizens, they did not wear our valenki, used to slide on the ice chute and this pleased our children.

My mother used to work with the personal documents of war-prisoners and she used to say that people behind the fence are waiting with great impatience the moment when they would be allowed to return to their motherland. We sympathized them since we understood that there were somewhere our war prisoners as well who were waiting and longing to see their relatives. One of the war prisoners, the cook on the kitchen, I don't remember his name, used to call my mother as Valya. He was very pedantic and accurate and he cooked very good. The tailors among prisoners sewed also very good."


The family of German specialist Wilhelm Hoffmann (He died on 1 March 1950.)



The member of Russian rangefinder club, MiStar from Krasnogorsk, was very kind and allowed to share his photo of the building of the former Central anti-fascist school (now Museum of German anti-fascists).

More photos of Krasnogorsk from MiStar:





These buildings are actually cottages of the "Object #40" where zeissians were settled. On the photograph of Wilhelm Hoffmann above you can see such a building on the background.

With the kind help of MiStar I managed to determine the place in Krasnogorsk where lived the specialists from Carl Zeiss Jena in 1946-1951. We now have the photos of all buildings of the "Object #40". Since these buildings are in really terrible condition (except the museum on Narodnogo Opolchenia 15) they would be demolished in the nearest future. It is a rare chance to see in which conditions lived zeissians in Krasnogorsk. Of course that time these buildings were relatively new.


(high resolution picture: http://album.foto.ru/photo/3367865)

Here is the location of the "Object #40" relative to the KMZ factory:


Then and now (Narodnogo Opolchenia 14).

To the director of the factory #393 Top secret

To directors of factories and research institutions of the Ministry of Arming of the USSR.

According to the order of the Council of Ministers of the USSR # 13610-pc from 9/XII.46 and the order of the Ministry of Arming # 398 from 14/XII.46 the German specialists who are working in the USSR are allowed to send to Germany one parcel monthly weighting up to 8 kg.

In order to send the parcel the German specialists should enclose a certificate that verifies their entitlement to send this parcel. Since starting from 1/III 48 the custom-house would not let pass these parcels through the border without such certificate.

With the acquisition of this order I ask you to organize the issue of such certificates and to establish their exact registration.

I notify in advance that every German specialist is allowed to obtain only one certificate per month.

Attachment: an example of the certificate.

Assistant of Minister of Arming
of the USSR N. Karasev

Recently I tried to visit the Arsenal museum in Kiev. In the internet I found the information that on the Arsenal factory there is small but very interesting museum dedicated to the history of the factory. The visitors of this place were very happy to speak with very pleasant guide who actually collected all items in the museum. They said in their blog that everybody can visit this small and rather unknown to tourists museum.

Unfortunately, this information turned in my case to be rather controversal. I was not allowed even to trespass the door of the museum. On one hand the factory has now some inventory. But "the pleasant guide" said to me that I am not allowed to enter the territory of the factory and visit the museum since THE FACTORY IS SECRET and, following this logic, the museum is also secret.

Alas! The history of the factory and of Kiev camera is a top secret of Ukraine. I have no words and understanding why. This "guide" was
very rude and unpleasant to communicate with him. On my comment that I am interested in Kievs and the history of this camera he said that it is better to speak with the sellers of Kievs on Kyivs flea markets that sounded like "go away!" He also said that he does not know anything about Kievs but later he said that Kievs were 100 times better than Contaxes and if I look inside Kiev and compare with Contax I can see the huge difference in quality in favor of Kievs. He said that if Germans like to write about their Contaxes that is their own problem. No information should be known about Kievs since they were produced on the secret plant. He also slip of the tongue that German machines are still in the factory and some "foreigner with a bag full of money" could buy the whole workshop with German machines. But I got the impression that this guy pretended or was mentally ill so I would not believe anything what he said. He made all the time statements and with the next sentence he said something completely opposite.

Probably the factory is under a huge pressure of some private businessman who wants to get this territory for free. Something similar happened already with other factories like Zavod Bolshevik. Probably this hostile attitude towards visitors is connected with some processes connected with the elimination of the factory. I have no idea. But nevertheless, I will never ever come to this factory again. It's over my mind to understand the logic to be so secret and not to show even the museum exhibition.

Sorry for you, Altix. And for us...
Really, I understand nothing about this attitude. Perhaps sll that has something to see with what arrives to Alex Komarov?

Jacques.