Back from Biиvres

Well, I guess it's mine now.

Hi Ilya,

Just try to understand.
You show here some very rare cameras. It's normal we try to find if we have a trace of them.

Anyway, it would be very kind if you could put other photos of your cameras...

I don't understand why you say that your Leica/Fed is "for spy"? There is no Leica without shoe...

Thanks for all these rarities! Jacques.

Hi Jacques. I absolutely ok with that. I'm not offended. I will make better pictures when I'll be back to home. I still in France. Leica/FED made for Russian spy's to cover up FED.
Also I have much more rare cameras . I'll post pictures of them later.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jacques M.

There was no Leica without shoe, Lenny. Even the Leica 0. This Leica/Fed seems made with a Fed cover from the s/n c. 9000/10000, by the shape of the finder.

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I thought of that Jacques and the logo looks little bit strange, but obviously with those 3 holes this cam had a special addition.

quote:

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Originally posted by ilyast

Hi Jacques. I absolutely ok with that. I'm not offended. I will make better pictures when I'll be back to home. I still in France. Leica/FED made for Russian spy's to cover up FED.
Also I have much more rare cameras . I'll post pictures of them later.

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Ilya, I didn't intend to offend you, sorry if it sounded like that. You are one of the famous Fed-KMZ collectors now. I wonder who the other is of #00063, it was Alain Berry before. I think to know about the previous owners is part of their special history. Maybe Aidas can tell you where and when he got it from.

What I would do:
Check how much tension is on the curtains, it can be felt, the small screw inside the two-sided nuts. I would lower the tension if it's too much.
I would always keep the shutter cocked, it would rest the opening curtain and the closing curtain would be rolled on the much bigger drum which is much better for the curtain.

Thanks again
Lenny

quote:

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Originally posted by ilyast

Leica/FED made for Russian spy's to cover up FED.

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That's interesting and totally comprehensible. Fed faked their own Feds to become Leicas. Very special then.

Thanks. At some point this Leica FEd belong to JLP

Congratulations also to Aidas, he must be rich now.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lenny

quote:

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Originally posted by ilyast

Leica/FED made for Russian spy's to cover up FED.

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That's interesting and totally comprehensible. Fed faked their own Feds to become Leicas. Very special then.

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No Lenny. I don't think it is so simple. Not sure that the engraving was made at the factory. And there are errors in the text. And if it was really a fake for spy, there would be a a shoe, as on any Leica. the factory would not have made such flagrant mistakes.

But I will wait for a special thread to discuss all that when Ilya is at home! I have some Leica Feds too to compare with this one!

Jacques.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jacques M.

I don't think it is so simple. Not sure that the engraving was made at the factory. And there are errors in the text. And if it was really a fake for spy, there would be a a shoe, as on any Leica. the factory would not have made such flagrant mistakes.

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Jacques, it must have been before the war, right. I'm not sure if people at that time knew about all the variants of Leicas. Maybe not for spys used to operate in Germany because the Gestapo could easily ask Leica. But good enough for spys in all other countries. Maybe these fakes were not intended to keep hidden, but the FED logo would easily be recognized as russian. So these fakes must not be very good copies, only we recognize strange things now.
Made from an early Fed this copy has it's worth, would be interesting to know more about it's history and where Princelle got it from.

I get this particular camera not from Aidas. Sorry this camera not make him rich.

The fake FEDs/Leica were made only for a problem of patents.The were some people in USSR,(diplomats, journalists, traders)that for their job outside the USSR needed a camera.The soviets had FEDs, but they were a Leica copy, and not only the camera, but every single part of it was covered by a german patent.So those fake Leicas were made to avoid any problem with Germany, which was a very important commercial partner for USSR. German authorities knew very well what the soviets did, but they pretended know nothing because USSR was a closed market; anyway they couldn't sell their cameras in USSR. After the war there were many Leica copies from over the world because in the peace treaty was stated that every german patent existing before the war was not more valid. And USSR began to sell the Zorki abroad. Greetings Francesco

Hi Francesco, have you been to Bievres?

I thought before the war the Leica patents were not valid in Russia. I read that maybe in Princelle's books or in the Leica wikipedia. Germany had good connections with Russia, they shared technology. The german company Goerz which later became a part of Zeiss had a factory in Leningrad (St.Petersburg) from 1905 on. Luiz told us some time ago that the KMZ logo originated from the Goerz logo. If Leica didn't have patents in Russia sure Fed was allowed to built copies before the war and why shouldn't Russians use Feds in Germany then.

Yes, the historical background is very important, I think.
The treaty of Rapallo (1922) established a cooperation between Germany and the Soviet Union. If not, the decision of "making Leicas" in the Commune would not have been followed so fast by the real production of Feds.
Makarenko even relates in his memories that a German delegation had met a Fed one. And the Germans had left the new Leica (probably the III(F) or the III(G))on a table... which was dismounted and remounted by the Communards.

The different Leica cameras were well known by Fed. So, there should not be mistakes in a Leica fake made by Fed... The "general" opinion is that these fakes were made for money. Of course, that does not exclude a fake made illegally by a Communard...

I had already been astonished by this camera, years ago, when discovering it in the JLP. I am really happy to know more about it. Thanks, Ilya! And eager you are back home!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

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Originally posted by Lenny

Luiz told us some time ago that the KMZ logo originated from the Goerz logo.

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At different times, C.P. Goerz with its affiliates used two logos (but just writing the name "C.P. Goerz" was the most preferred practice). The first one (triangle-like) became the NPZ logo, now in: Novosibirsk, it is the former "Zavod tochnoy mekhaniki" (Krasnogorsk). And the later logo (Dove prism) became the KMZ logo.
Some information of this history is there (in Russian):
http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-logos.html
http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/history/marks.html
A separate page about a mysterious logos history (Goerz-NPZ-KMZ) is not ready yet. I still can not find the time to finish this work... :(

very interesting history of logos idea
we wait for that
Regards
LP

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Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo

very interesting history of logos idea
we wait for that

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It could be said that Zeiss and KMZ are far relatives because of Goertz. Goertz produced mostly optical goods for the military and after World War One, which Germany lost, they were not allowed to build military goods anymore because of the peace treaty. Joining Zeiss saved the company. I assume the factory in Leningrad was lost, Russia won World War One and the Goertz factory might have become a Soviet company then. The machinery, tools and skilled workers must have been still there and a good start for something new. That KMZ chose the old Goertz logo shows how important the factory in Leningrad was in the Russian history.

Will be very interesting what Zoom can tell us about this logo.

Hi Fred,
just to let you know, there was a Canon 50/0.95 lens sold at westlicht auction for 2200 euro.

Hi Lenny!
Thank you for the information
I bought mine 1450 euros for body and lens in Biиvres.
It has taken me half a day to nйgociate with seller from Denmark.
He wanted 1990 at beginning...
Fred

Fred, page 6, lot 276, serial #16507, and 2200 euro was without buyers premium, now it's 2640 euro.
http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=4

There was also a Neuca, not as beautiful as Jacques', page 5, lot 251, 6600 euro.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1362015_Neuca proto westlicht 1506251.jpg