When is a Kiev II not a Kiev II?

I saw [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kiev-503800-30-30RKY-2-5cm-P-3K-5000061-lf153-/232137429558?nma=true&si=qaycl5acj0Q3GzUB9Tnks5xvnw0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557"]this[/url] and thought it was a very nice Kiev II with its original ZK lense, though at a very 'good' price, but then I saw that 'bulge' under the lens and had a look at the underside picture. It must really be a record price for a Kiev 4A. Does the lens look genuine?

Actually, the way prices for early Kievs have been going, I've been thinking for some time that it cannot be long before fakers start turning Contax IIs into Kievs - if they are not already!

Hi Steve,

I think it's just what Russians call a "kotleta" (cutlet) it's basically been repaired with parts from 4 since they are compatible..

Cheers,
Vlad

It has to be a 4/4A body, though, because of the position of the tripod bush. On the Contax and Kiev II/III/2A/3A the bush is central and mounted on the back; on the 4/4A it is offset (directly under the lens) and mounted on the body.

I doubt if any of it is Kiev II except the front-plate - and that could be faked!

..the worrying thing is that someone has paid 241 Euros for it! Basically you can make whatever custom Kiev you like if you have enough different parts!

Steve

This is weird. Front plates from the 50's won't fit Kiev 4 body casting unless you remove some metal.

Top with all the knobs and lens is Kiev II.. to me it seems like only the bottom is replaced? I may be wrong..

AND the body. You can't get a 4 back on a II, and if you could, there would be a big hole where the tripod bush should be!

just to clarify you're saying only top and front plate are Kiev II rest is 4?

I think the only thing that is definitely not from a 4A or 4 is the rewind knob! The accessory shoe would be easy to fake. I don't know about the front-plate, but if a Kiev II plate would not fit a 4A, as 'jed' says, that must be faked as well.

Notice that the seller does not actually claim it is a Kiev II. He simply quotes the serial number on the accessory shoe, so it's a case of "caveat emptor"!

Could somebody give me any link or links how to differentiate details of models of Kiev ?
When I search in google "Kiev II" you know how many results I have.

Hi Alfa,

You can try Aidas's site: http://sovietcams.com/index.php?-1887505578
Or DVD: http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/arsenal/arsenal.htm

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Thank you, Jacques.

Has Kiev II price really gone this much up - as in, would this be normal price if the item were pure Kiev II? I have no clue really. Bought myself #503299 with ZK 50/2 #5003568 yesterday for 20 euros, which I thought of as cheap but not bargain. Not that I intended to sell, Kievs are way too much fun to use.

Twenty euros is extremely cheap for an early Kiev II with its correct lens! On eBay in the UK you would be quite lucky to get a reasonable Kiev 4 for that.

I think 241 euros would still be well over the top for that 4A fake, even if it had been genuine, but someone apparently did not think so.