Zorki 3 preseries

Hello friends of Zorki cameras

I have done some researches about the "Zorki 3 preserie" cameras and I came to the conclusion, that there don't exist. Well, it's a bit provocative maybe, but after all it makes no sense to talk about "preserie" for normal production cameras, if there are 3000, 6000 or even 12000 items of a full serie of maybe 30000 Zorki 3 (estimated number without the Zorki 3M).

The main problem seems to be the serial numbers of the early Zorki 3 with leading zero(s). But the year of production as part of the serial number was introduced (for cameras!) inital in 1954, but the Zorki 3 was produced in little numbers since 1951 (around 2100 between 1951 and 1953 are sold). In mid (?) 1954 the new system with the year of production in serial numbers was introduced, as by the Zorki 1 line.

There are some difference between the early Zorki 3 and the later ones certainly, but there are changing step by step between 1951 and 1954. Examples: The border of the viewfinder (very soon changed, maybe 1952?), the lock at the slow speed dail (changed 1953/54?) and other details.

The FED-KMZ was a preserie of the FED-Zorki, yes, but that's just an other sitation I think. So wouldn't it better to talk about "early" and "later" Zorki 3?

What do you think about this idea? Any opinions?

Best regards - Guido

Guido,

I like your point of view indeed. All these "preseries" Zorki-3 are the normal evolution of particular camera. And I do clasify them as early ones and late ones. Using word "preseries" can add some value for camera seller, but actually mean nothing for collector himself. It would be great to have Zorki-3 classified from the very first stage ...

Best Regards,
Aidas

Hello Aidas

Thank you for your answer. Yes, that's the point: Making more money with such words like "rare", "preserie" or "prototype" ...

For the classification: I'm working on this at the moment, but don't expect deeper results within the next weeks.

Best wishes - Guido

Hello Guido and Aidas,

I call my #00707 Zorki 3 a preseries, but only referring to the double 0 prefix, as it is usual. But I agree with you: it's only an evolution. And this camera is most interesting because it's really a laboratory for the following series.

If I can help, some details seem specific on my 00707:
- the bigger viewfinder up to the limit of the cover,
- the absence of screw against the viewfinder,
- the screw under the rangefinder is in the middle, not on the right,
- the four screws of the accessory clip are not visible,
- the lock at the slow speed dial.

I bought it with a 1952 black rigid Industar 22. Impossible to say if it is the original lens.

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hello Guido and Aidas,

I agree with you both also. I am always wondering what "pre-series" means and have wondered if the factories or designers considered these models pre-series. It would seem that a pre-series might be a small number of cameras made to test (before the series was made). There is the question of the serial numbers on some of the cameras which might first begin with "000xxx" or something like that when the later series might begin with the year number, like "56xxx", so maybe there are really "pre-series" thought of by the factory.

Probably the camera Aidas has, the Selena ,where only 40 or so were made, may be considered the pre-series to a series that was never produced! So can it be a pre-series if there was no series? Or are these 40 cameras considered all to be prototypes? Very interesting, and I think each individual case may be different.

There are really prototype models, but they are rare and just because a camera has an early serial number does not make it a prototype. For example, the camera I have called "Zorki-35M" is a prototype, with only two or three examples being handmade.

The description "rare" is usually a subjective one and different people like to make money with it for sure, but some stuff is rare and not seen often.

The best thing is when someone does take the time, like Guido, to classify the evolution of a particular camera. Then, everyone has a common way to identify the individual characteristics of a model and, with the additional information of serial numbers, passport dates, etc. the picture becomes more clear. So, good work Guido and I will be very interested in your work on Zorki-3!

Regards, Bill

I completely agree with all your points except for one that Guido stated regarding the year introduction in serial numbers... I have Moskva cameras from as early as late 1940s already with year prefixes, so KMZ was already on that system by then, I am not sure whether it was spread to Zorkis yet though..

Vlad.

Hello Vlad

You're absolutly right, I only talked about the Zorki cameras. Zenit cameras used this system from 1952 on (Zenit 1), M39 lenses for Zorki's at least from 1951 on (Industar 22).

Best wishes - Guido

quote:

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Originally posted by Guido Studer

Hello Vlad

You're absolutly right, I only talked about the Zorki cameras. Zenit cameras used this system from 1952 on (Zenit 1), M39 lenses for Zorki's at least from 1951 on (Industar 22).

Best wishes - Guido

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Guido,

let me to remind you, that even BK and ZK lenses already had date prefixes in their serial numbers indeed (both for Contax or Fed-Zorki cameras )... and the Industar-22 "Rigid White" and "Rigid Black" lenses were the first ones to have prefix "50" in their serial, so we should start from 1950 indeed ...

Best Regards,
Aidas

Hello Jacques

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jacques M.


If I can help, some details seem specific on my 00707:
- the bigger viewfinder up to the limit of the cover,
- the absence of screw against the viewfinder,
- the screw under the rangefinder is in the middle, not on the right,
- the four screws of the accessory clip are not visible,
- the lock at the slow speed dial.

---

Thank you very much for this informations. All this points I had also on my list, but of the four screws of the accessory shoe a wasn't aware of.

An interesting thing is that all the points are also present at Princelles picture of the Zorki 3 prototype (K100, page 131), but the screw left of the viewfinder is there, like at the Zorki 2 prototype (K130, page 130).

Now I'm looking for other pictures and s/n to build a better list.

Best wishes - Guido

Hello Aidas

quote:

---

Originally posted by AidasCams

let me to remind you, that even BK and ZK lenses already had date prefixes in their serial numbers indeed (both for Contax or Fed-Zorki cameras )... and the Zorki "Rigid white" and "Rigid black" lenses were the first ones to have prefix "50" in their serial, so we should start from 1950 indeed ...

---

Okay, but I own only one SK lens from 1948 at the moment, with some zeros at the beginning of the s/n ... ;-)

Best wishes - Guido

quote:

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Originally posted by Guido Studer

Hello Aidas

quote:

---

Originally posted by AidasCams

let me to remind you, that even BK and ZK lenses already had date prefixes in their serial numbers indeed (both for Contax or Fed-Zorki cameras )... and the Zorki "Rigid white" and "Rigid black" lenses were the first ones to have prefix "50" in their serial, so we should start from 1950 indeed ...

---

Okay, but I own only one SK lens from 1948 at the moment, with some zeros at the beginning of the s/n ... ;-)

Best wishes - Guido

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Guido,

below you will find some serials of BK and ZK I have found in my archives. I hope this will assist you somehow:

ZK 2/50mm:
#000378 (Kiev), #003340 (Kiev), #003365 (Zorki), #4902175 (Zorki), #4902889 (Kiev), #4904348 (Kiev), #4904638 (Kiev), #500519 (Kiev), #500668 (Kiev), #5000272 (Kiev), #5000350 (Zorki), #5001125 (Kiev), #5002295 (Kiev), #5003665 (Kiev), #5004826 (Zorki).

ZK 1.5/50mm
#491148 (Zorki), #500358 (Zorki).

BK 2.8/35mm
#5000088, #5000097.

Industar-22 (from my personal collection)
#5002998 (Rigid White), #5018843, #5057392.

Hello everyone

I'm still looking for *all* serial numbers of Zorki 3 and Zorki 3M. For the four digit s/n of the Zorki 3 it would be nice to have informations of the options named by Jacques M.:

- big or small viewfinder
- screw against the viewfinder or not
- screw under the rangefinder is in the middle or on the right
- four screws of the accessory clip are visible or not
- lock at the slow speed dial
- maybe other options like different speed dail or flash sync

A picture of the camera would help too.

At the moment I have only eight Zorki 3 with numbers <5000 on my list, maybe you can help me to find some more?

The larger numbers 54xxxx ... 56xxxxx for both models (3 and 3M) would be helpfull for me to find out more about the production of this models (I have about 40 of this numbers at the time, but it would be better to have more).

You can send me any information by mail or you write it here. As soon as I will have a better overview I will give you the informations here in the forum.

Thank you very much in advance.

Best wishes - Guido

Zorki 3 - 5434215
Zorki 3M - 6102177

See you all in a week.
Vlad

3S #5632260
3M #5545673

Smena rules

Zorki 3 # 5571252
Zorki 3M# 00707

Jacques.

Thank you for your shared numbers.

@Vlad:
A Zorki 3M from 1961?

@Jacques:
I think you mixed up the 3 and the 3M. No problem for this.

Best wishes - Guido

Jacques.

Guido,

Zorki-3 #01447 recently for sale on Molotok.ru.

http://molotok.ru/item327114857_zorkij_3_rannij_01447.html

Regards,
Aidas

Hello Aidas

Thank you very much for this interesting link. Yes, exactly such cameras/pictures I'm looking for.

Best wishes - Guido

Hello Jacques

The picture belongs to your Zorki 3 #0707? What do you like to show us with this? Thank you for any comment!

Best wishes - Guido