FED S: Fake or not fake

Hello all,

What do you think of such FED S camera:

http://cgi.ebay.com/FED-RUSSIAN-35MM-FILM-RANGEFINDER-CAMERA-LEICA-COPY_W0QQitemZ330275996108QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item330275996108&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

No engraving on the top plate, central screw in front of the camera not partially covered by the mount, other odd features maybe...

So, fake or not fake?

Without handling the camera it is difficult to say. There are Fed-s models of all 3 pre-war fed models.

The biggest question is why anyone would make one with an unengraved top plate. My best guess would be that it is a parts camera!

It's obvious to me that this is a filed down camera someone started to make a fake Leica out of...

Vlad

Vlad, this is exactly my thought. We can even see the process - the top was ground off and already re-chromed, but the bottom was ground off, but no chrome yet. I think this is indeed a botched Stalinets or Gulag.

But the lens alone is surely worth the price.

I think they started butchering the camera and then realized that they just killed a perfectly good FED-S (it must be FED-S, the top speed is 1/1000 and f:2 lens). So they got upset and are selling it as is:-)

Hi Yuri,
I agree that this is probably a FED-S ... but not altered to make a Stalinets or Gulag, as those two forgeries would not need alteration of the bottom plate. More likely to make a Leica fake, since the Cyrillic writing on the bottom needs to be changed to German (Zu - Auf). Or, to make an Italian, English, French, or American fake of a rangefinder ... but probably Leica.

Regards, Bill

Probably a 1d type S, between 95xxx and 120xxx, after the shutter cage which seem to be in aluminium.
Not a bad price, for a blind camera!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hello,

I was pointed to this thread by the RangeFinderForum. I am the buyer of the camera.

When I bought it, I was quite sure what the camera actually was, I had figured it was salvaged from being converted to a fake Leica.

I also had hope it has never been engraved at all, since I read on the web that during production, the plant was moved. Close inspection of the chroming does not show any differences in chrome texture or colour between top plate and rest of body.

Question: is there any other way of knowing a serial number, apart from top lettering? Any interior part with a possible written serial number on it?

Cheers, Johan

Hi Johan,

Welcome on this site!
As for your Fed S, there is no possibility to know the exact serial number. But we can have a good approximation.
No real doubt it is a "d" type: the front screw above the lens is entirely visible. So, its serial number should be between c95000 and c. 175000.
If I am not wrong (but I'm not sure when looking again), the shutter cage (you can see it when removing the shoe, under the black paint) is made of aluminium, not of brass. The aluminium shutter cages begin at 120/130000, brass before.
And there is a hole in the film plate till about c. 150000 (open the shutter with "Z" to see it), no hole after.

I think that if you apply these two criteriums, you will have a rough idea. I don't know any more precise way...

Of course, it could be an "e" type (# between 173xxx and 184xxx) but they are much rarer and impossible to differentiate from the "d" types without engraving.

Cordialement. Jacques.
PS: by the way, what is the serial number of the lens? That could give an idea too!

Jacques is correct in what he says, and it is difficult to be more precise, but there is also a serial number on the lens.
If the lens is original,(if the highest shutter speed on the camera is 1,000 then this is the correct lens for the camera) and almost certainly the original lens. So perhaps we can narrow it down a little more.
Best wishes to all, Jim

There is a distant possibility, but I've read somewhere (I think one of the articles on photohistory.ru) that early Soviet spies had used these FED cameras for clandestine operations and used such unmarked cameras. But the stripped bottom plate somewhat contradicts this theory...

Johan's comment about the uniformity of chrome had made me think of that...

Vlad

P.S. Johan, welcome to the site!

Hi again,

thanks for all your swift and helpful replies, first of all.

I have taken a closer look and have found a hole in the pressure plate. So, under 150000. Shutter caging is almost certainly aluminium, I have not found a single uncoated spot but it seems too flexible when poking it with the finger, it moves too easily for brass.

The lens has a number 27151, as well as a stamped '1' and an '8'. I presume the latter two are numbers indicating the correction made to fit the camera and lens together?

Today I have already run a film through it and picked it up from the 1 hr. service. Will scan tonight. First findings: no scratches, but irregular spacing (possibly due to 36 shot film, too much tension?) and curtains not completely light tight. Considerable 'flaring', curtains should be replaced.

I will be traveling to Prague next week, anybody know a good shop there to pick up a spare FED for parts?

Once again, thanks for all your considerate answers to these many questions!

Cheers, Johan

Hi Johan,

Me again to say that with such a lens number, your "S" could be numbered between 105000 and 120000, of course if the lens is original.
As for the "18", nobody knows exactly: it could point a team, a machine, a "batch" or something else....

Amicalement. Jacques.

Hi,

I have first shots and they are a disappointment.
Multiple issues: uneven spacing, body has light leaks. Lens has haze. Has 0.5 mm play in mount.

Although the curtains look messy (they seem to contain some kind of glue), they are light tight. All shutter speeds above 60th fairly accurate, but could use improvement.

The light leaking is easily to address. Shots come out like this:



The brown thing being part of the spool assembly, which reflects light onto the film. Virtually all shots are off focus, due to haze.

Advice needed:
*I'm not worried about the body, restoring it will most probably be succesful. But, what about the lens?
*Is a lens like this worth the investment to have it cleaned?
*Does anyone have DIY for this lens? I have found very little on the net, if anyone can provide me with good info, I'd be happy to post a pictorial DIY for future reference! ( I am currently working on the conversion of an in-parts Leica M3 to a black model, skills available.)

Oh,

next week I will be visiting Prague. Anyone aware of a good shop there that sells FEDs which can be used as a donor for this one?

Thanks again!

Cheers, Johan

Schwartzer...
try to visit little second hand photo shop in "Bйtlemska" street (very small street),
not so far Carolus bridge and center town.
may be allways open, but you know , russians camera are now rarest in Prag....you can found only old DDr cameras and some more expensives....
Do not forgot to visit interesting polytechnic museum (photo sector) in the upper old town.

I wrote last summer to Zenit Camera Group about Prague:

"As a city: my history knowledge is from 60ies on, so I have
considered Czech republic to be a part of eastern Europe. So I was
more than surprised to see here is the central Europe that we have
been searching for, and in one museum map I found out the reason. In
1700ies Prague was a central city of Germania, and also the region
name Bohemia opened my eyes. So I was totally wrong, I should have
looked further back some centuries before my time!

Buildings, architecture, bierstuben (pubs), sauerkraut and pork neck
were so familiar and welcome to me after southern Germany and
Austria, and naturally the "national drink" beer. Plus Slivovits and
Becherovka (local Jдgermeister type of drink). Also it was cheap in
comparison to Scandinavia!

Cameras: Be surprised to look at the pictures I took, and that was
not the only one with this kind of stocks but here it was easy &
allowed to shoot. Huge lots of Praktica especially! Prices both cheap
and high, usually the better ones didn't cost much more than the
basic ones. So it pays to buy a high-end model for the small
difference.
The Smena-SL I found in a small antiques store in the end of
Bethlemska st, and the shop keeper said that it had been there for
over a decade. Next shop, actually not on Bethlemska any more, was a
camera store with the TTL. The window shots are from there, and as
you see they had local specials.
Then the big ones at Vodickova: actually there was two of them. The
other at 28, and that was actually better, especially in service.
There I bought the 1982 Z-19 that is like new. Also here the owner
(bit older man) spoke german, and the pics with large camera vitrines
are from there. The second, more modern shop was "too modern" as they
sold even new cameras (mostly digital). But they had EVERYTHING,
nicely arranged in vitrines with price tags.

Summed up: a great place to visit if you like older central Europe
city sceneries. For shopping (even other than cameras) it is a good
place at least for us. And you are tempted to buy a suitcaseful of
cameras, but in real FSU-rarities hunt you will end up with only a
few ones."

And if you are a member of ZCG put in search for "Prague" for even more

Smena rules

I confirm Cedric....., on Vodickova is a great shop ,. The shop leader is collecor (a real museum in the shop cross over the street (near a nice "art deco " gallery.
the first in a very long , multi dpt shop ...you can find collecting itel far awy in the bottom of this shop whith many vitrines .
Interesting here to buy Meopta production (enlargers etc...) and accessories (low cost filters, lenses projectors etc...)
AFAIK there is no more interesting shop for us in Prag (concerning photography)

Hi all,

thanks for your replies on the shops question! I will get a map of the Prague center and visit these shops next week!

If I come across anything interesting, i might buy and display here, or photograph it in the shop and post it here!

Cheers, Johan

hello all,

am currently about with cleaning the camera ( got a copy of Tomosy's Leica repair book), and now can state with certainty this camera has a brass shutter cage.

The visit to Prague, though pleasant, proved fruitless concerning a FED-1 camera. Currently I am conversing with a fellow Dutchman who has some spare parts for sale to restore the camera.

I have visited Foto Skoda and Pasdera, both on Vodickova off Wenceslav Square, and have found them to be fine shops with a considerable stock (If it's not on display at Foto Skoda, they don't have it, Pasdera has a considerable behind the counter stock as well)

Question: anybody have a trustworthy address to have the 50mm 2.0 FED lens cleaned that belongs to this camera?

Advice/ help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

Johan
Holland.

I had my FED-S and its lens fixed cleaned and adjusted at Fedka.com but that's in USA if you don't mind shipping... and it's now buttery smooth!

quote:

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Originally posted by Vlad

I had my FED-S and its lens fixed cleaned and adjusted at Fedka.com but that's in USA if you don't mind shipping... and it's now buttery smooth!

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Hi Vlad,

I have taken a look at your FED-S and the lens, and will definitely send my camera and lens to Yuri, the sight of your lens makes me grin, it looks marvelous! Mine has many minor cleaning marks on it so it will not come out as beautiful, a user grade lens at best. Which is fine by me. Thanks for your advice, an interesting collection you have!

Question: have you shot this lens? I am very curious as to the results it renders! Could you post some shots, or direct me to them? I'm hoping for the 'Summar' look: sharp and rather low contrast, an aged look in B&W.