Mysterious Spy Camera, can we identify?

Bill, that actually makes perfect sense about this being a precursor the Leningrad!

Thanks so much for your analysis!
Cheers,
Vlad

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Originally posted by nightphoto


In Princelle, it says KOMZ has been making lenses since the early 1950s. I thought the article says that the GOMZ factory was evacuated to Kazan (the City), rather than to KOMZ (the factory that was in that City). Maybe, if that is correct, then that was the start of KOMZ. Maybe Zoom knows this history?

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GOMZ ("GOMZ imeni OGPU", in that time has number 349) was never evacuated from Leningrad! ;) But indeed, near the half of this plant (equipment and a service staff) was transferred (during July-August, 1945) to Kazan to KOMZ (in that time this plant was in a building stage -- founded in 08.02.1940). In October 1941 KOMZ made the first serial production -- the binoculars B-6. During the war plant also made a lenses. So: Princelle and Tumazov are not correct... ;)

what is logical for me is that those cameras where made with some robot parts, and that the first step was copying robots, then may be simplifying or upgrading the model. There was no immediate need in producing robots-like cameras since robots (luftwaffe or others) were available as war surplus or recuperations (more than 30000 were produced for german military purpose). but those reconditioned cameras (?) were useful for the development of further projects...

It's also a known fact that robot cameras were used by a lot of secret services around the world ... west or east... stasi-robots are known, there is even a robot camera hidden in a flexaret case and shooting through the rewind button (the ultimate tribute to E-A Poe, a camera hidden in a camera)... I wonder if those cameras were bought through parrallel market or directly at the "western" factory ? (robots were not classified equipment ?).

I definitively think that the lens mount of this camera (the one we are all talking about) is not a standard robot mount... but a direct attachment for a something that is not a lens... please show a frontal picture of the camera and thing...

Stephan

Simply FANTASTIC !!!!!! All this Robotsky history !!!!!
These cameras could be rebuilt after the war from original exceeding parts from Luftwaffe Robot, the same way first run of Kievs were built from Contax parts. I know well these Luftwaffe cameras and main parts are identical.
OK - There are many things in between the Heavens and the Earth than we could know....
I believe the second logo on the binocular was the first Novosibirsk Pribori Zavod logo (around 1942) Zoom with the word...
LP

Thanks for the proper history of the factories Zoom!

Here is a link that shows lots of photos of Robot Luftwaffen. You can see that the lens mount is identical between Soviet Robot and Luftwaffen Robot. (Click on 2nd small image).

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/3634577#

Also, seems that these Soviet Robots would have been used with a normal lens for normal shooting if they sometimes came with a leather case with neckstrap (as shown in the article) but probably could have also been useful for other purposes (microscope, medical, etc.)so maybe the lens on Viktor's camera is a special purpose lens, or maybe just added later.

Thanks for the possible ID of the factory logo for my binoculars Luiz!

Regards, Bill

Bill
A good find! Unhappily we cannot see the internal of the camera.
In the pages of Suglob we see the internal of Robotsky and one can see the four pins in the frame. This is the main difference of Robots between Luftawaffe and non-Luftwaffe. This interior exactly reproduces Luftwaffe Robots of 1942. The springs of the single and double wind are also exactly the same; but the double spring really has two decks of springs coupled between them using the same single ratchet lock on both. By this reason the button is double tall
The Russian version is slightly different. When repairing those cameras with the stuck shutter it is extremely dangerous opening the tower because frequently people wound the spring to the maximum.
May be Russians could have solved this prolem with a different tower design.
LP

Delight yourselves at:
http://www.robot-camera.de/ROBOT_Kameras/Spezial-Kameras/RoBoT_Prototypen/robot_prototypen.html
An interesting prtotype with identical interior but without registration marks at
30768-4
see variations at
http://www.robot-camera.de/ROBOT_Kameras/Robot_II/robot_ii.html
and finally suspect about original robot parts.
This was completely possible oncein 1949 Germany was paying War debts.
LP

quote:

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Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo

I believe the second logo on the binocular was the first Novosibirsk Pribori Zavod logo (around 1942) Zoom with the word...

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I know this logo, but the "owner" still not identified...

quote:

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Originally posted by Luiz Paracampo

... Robotsky ...

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Btw. the word "Robot" is Slavonic -- from Chech "robota" (in Russian -- "rabota") -- labor, work. So, "Robot" ~> "Worker".
Adding -sky to "Robot" has no sense in anyway... :P

quote:

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Originally posted by Victor Suglob

This article will dissipate doubts about that camera, which I have.

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Nothing is dissipated...
Victor's camera is black, camera from that article is "white"...
Victor's camera has no plant logo. As for me -- it is impossible to forgot engrave it...

It is better to Victor to send more detailed photos of his camera... Especially: an "insides" and the place, where in original Robot the serial number is engraved.

About an article from magazine "Sibirskiy Uspekh": long article... but nothing about a history of this camera. A twaddle round about a special aero-cameras, but nothing more...

Of course, Victor had not a plant to make a fake cameras. But he is mistaken that there are no counterfeiters...

so I agree some luftwaffe robot have the rounded flim chamber parts also... (or vice versa)... I lways thougt that luftawaffe robots were plain robot II (who have normal chambers)...

and I agree that luftrobot have simplified mount (whit a recessed part) like the "russian robot"...

but the winder barel is still different...

We definitivly need to open both an original and a "russian" one to look for significative difference...

with all those new evidence, I really think that russian robots are rebuild or reconditionned units... more than full copies.

Stephan

sorry I had only a normal robot II to compare...

Stephan

Zoom, just my personal opinion, but I do think there is overwhelming evidence here with a few pictures of the different camera samples that are quite different from the original Robot based on experts opinions plus Viktor's (Even though there is a doubt that it may have been repainted) plus the one he mentions that another person has just like it (which I believe without a doubt, plus Viktor promised photos of that one as well).. which leads me to believe that there is in fact a series of these cameras.. I think your counterpoints are strong but not enough to outweigh the other evidence.. I am just playing a common juror here like a court of law where both sides present evidence and arguments.. so far I'm leaning towards authenticity .

Vlad