Black Kiev 15

Does anybody know how to distinguish real black Kiev 15 from painted one?
This one is probably painted? Or may be not?

http://cgi.ebay.com/KIEV-15-TEE-Russian-Semiautomatic-SLR-Camera-Black_W0QQitemZ110248660435QQihZ001QQcategoryZ15241QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I don't believe there ever was a black Kiev 15...

May be you are right, Vlad.
Well and may be not. I only find pictures.
This one from DVD Technic:

I think the one on Ebay may be an after-factory painted modification, because, if you look at the black part around the lens (front plate)
you can see wear to the edges where the brass has been exposed and darkened. However, the top plate has no wear on the edges, which to me, is suspicious. The all the Kiev 15s had a black front plate.

On the photo of the DVDTech black camera there seems to be appropriate wear on both the front and top plates ... so maybe original???

Regards, Bill

Bill I agreed with you on both cameras.
I do not thing DVDTech will put painted camera on his Web Side in collection section, right next to the chrome Kiev 15.
I wonder if anybody has black Kiev 15?
And how can we separate real black Kiev from painted (I do not want to use word fake!)

hmm... well DVD is pretty tight with Arsenal, I would think he wouldn't be selling painted cameras as originals... so it's possible I guess...

Okynek, could you post a link to that camera on DVDTechnik site? I can't seem to find it, I want to see his description.

Thanks!
vlad

The black paint on the top plate of an after-factory paint job will not have the exact same shiny surface as the front plate of a factory model. It will look slightly less shiny. Also, just like the one on Ebay, the wear will probably not match, unless there is no wear at all (suspicious) or if the black paint job is old, even if not factory.
When they paint a camera black at the factory, I think they do it right over the metal (brass or aluminum), but when done later it is done over the matte chrome, although some may smooth the chrome down somewhat. So, I think a close examination of the paint on the front plate compared to the top plate will tell. But this will be successful with the camera in hand to inspect, or with large good photos with light reflecting off the black surfaces. It will probably be hard to tell with regular Ebay type photos (although I think I can see these differences on the Kiev 15 TEE Black on Ebay now). To me the DVDTech camera looks OK and so I think maybe sometimes a black camera was requested from the factory from someone important, and they made it ... but just speculation.

Regards, Bill

Sure!
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/arsenal/arsenal.htm
then choose Kiev 15 and scroll down.

I agree with Bill - aftermarket paint in most cases looks clean and new, sinc epeople rarely use refinished cameras. They are mostly collectible items. The one from DVD site shows uniform wear, so it could be real.

I did see "worn" (must be artificially) black Kiev-4a cameras, and we all remember that green military set, which also shows some wear.

If black Kiev-15 existed, it must be rare. Princelle does not know about it. I wonder if Victor Suglob does.

Thank you Bill and Yuri for you input. Now I have little doubts that eBay camera is painted.
But it would be interesting to find how many black Kiev made. Where they made as a production line or they was made outside of the main production line. May be by special order(s), or may be by tinkers inside or outside of the Arsenal?

I believe it is painted too. When I first started to collect no one ever tried to sell me one. Michael Kamph can verify that if there were any around they would have been trying to sell me or him one.Remember there are great numbers of highly skilled technicians in the Former SU who were/are looking for a way to make some money.

Don't overlook my early Black Kiev 10 fitted with the early Helios-65 Lens, posted in the WIKI.

The camera is quite nice looking but indeed not original.

Steve