AM2 "prototype"

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230340175155

Why call this prototype, when in 1994 KMZ had already produced over 10.000 units of AM2? I can surely call mine a much more true prototype with serial 92000002 which is second ever made





Best regards,
Juhani

You saw it as well check out my thread on mflenses we discused it there, this company do it a lot basically everything they sell is a rare prototype and costs a fortune! It hasn't even got the battery pack they probably sell it alone for Ј300
Yours must be worth about Ј10,000 then Juhani
Samsung GX-10,too many Russian Lenses, A lot of Zenits, some Yashica,and finally a Minox35GT

Juhani,

I took a look at the seller's name and closed the window immediatly :-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Guys I think it has different lens mount.. that would account for this camera being rare.. no?

Vlad,
I thought all Zenit AM-2 have a Pentax K bayonet mount ... also known as "PK Mount". So how is this mount different?

Ulrich,
Maybe Boris made a mistake on this one? Yes, his prices are high retail, but I wouldn't "close the window" too fast on this seller as he has some very rare Russian cameras listed at the moment ... for example FED Serial # 173 ($13,000. and the GOMZ Multiplier Reflex by Liubimov ($20,000.) that Vlad just listed on the WIKI. I would like to buy them both (but too much money for me)!

Also he has a FED-B listed ... but is it authentic ... top fast speed is only 500th of a second!

Juhani,
Very nice early Zenit AM-2! Very nice!

Regards, Bill

Bill you may be right, he mentions the PK mount, I can't remember what's on regular one.. I assumed that had some significance...

Am-2 all have Pk mount, its not a prototype at all, its a standard 1994 production Am2, mine has a serial about 300 higher and is pretty much identical if not actually in better condition Yes this guy does have some very rare cameras, he's had an Almaz 102 and a 104 before now, but he quite often sellls standard equipment like this at ridiculous prices and claims its a prototype or limited run. Like Ulrich I tend to ignore what he sells, but this one was too good not to comment on

Samsung GX-10,too many Russian Lenses, A lot of Zenits, some Yashica,and finally a Minox35GT

Bill, you are right, he has really rare pieces, I think he also had/has the millionth Kiev to sale, but as Richard says, his prices are beyond any borders that I want to pay. $13000 for a FED with number 137 is not ok in my opinion, even it is rare, compare the prices to Westlicht Auctions, there you can see more real prices.

Ulrich



http://fotos.cconin.de

But Ulrich, I always look at Westlicht and also Peter's shop "The Leica Shop" but still I have not seen a FED-1 as low as # 173! The last good FED-1 cameras with the smooth vulcanite were shown at Brieves last year and Alain showed us photos at that time, I believe. I don't remember the prices at that show but the same cameras did show up at the Leica Shop and were sold from there. The prices were not small either ... certainly over $6000. There will always be a big difference in price for such a low number FED. So, in my opinion, although the $13000 price is high retail ... it is only that, not a fantasy price. Prices like this will of course be more than many folks will want to pay (or are able to pay), but that doesn't mean that the price is unfair. Think of it this way ... if you won a lottery for 75 million Euros next week ... would you consider to pay the $13,000 for that FED that was only the 173rd FED made by the young Communards in 1934? Maybe not, but I would! How much is a very rare Leica these days?

There are more than one Millionth Kiev. It is more like a small edition of One Millionth cameras, as I have heard.

Regards, Bill

Bill, ok, the price for such a low numbered FED might be ok. And if I win some millions next week in the lottery I would by it, there you are right :-)

But it is more this thing about "prototypes" that Boris has even if they are no protoypes at all. As I remember he has offered more cameras as prototypes that are not prototypes. Maybe he did not know it better but I think that he knows... That's why I am not a big friend of him :-)

Your aspect about the Millionth Kiev is interesting, I thought that only one of it exists.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

I know Ulrich, you are completely right about his calling low numbered cameras "prototypes". I think it is a combination of mostly just wanting to make cameras appear very rare and probably not realizing which low numbered cameras are prototypes, pre-series, or just the beginning of the series. And he is not the only one confused (when it is confusion, not just sales rap) about the terminology. Does anyone know if the factories themselves ever made anything called a "pre-series". I sort of think not! The term prototype is more clearm as to what it means, but I think once actual tooling and dies are made for a camera, it is no longer a prototype.

In any case, I hope you will win some millions in the lottery and then you can buy both of his very rare cameras with no problem!

I was told by a knowledgeable friend that Arsenal made at least several "One Millionth Kiev" and that they are "symbolic" 1,000,000th cameras, made as display items, and also there are also possible forgeries of it. Still very rare no doubt.

my best to you Ulrich!

Regards, Bill