just arrived in my collection

Up with this thread! :-)

Today a KIEV II from 1950 arrives here. It's the version with engraved instead stamped cyrillic and latin name on the front mask. I have never seen one before. It seems to be all original. It is different in some parts from later KIEV II, the front mask material is thicker, the shutter has a hand engraved number, the long rangefinder glass inside looks like one of a Contax, more pieces inside are made of brass, the numbers on the focus ring are seperated with commas instead of points, the self timer lever is smaller. Serial number is 500397.

Very interesting in my opinion. I make some pictures the next days of it and show them here.

Unfortunately there was no lens but I own a matching Jupiter 8 from 1950 that will fit perfectly :-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Really interesting, Ulrich!
I own two 1950 Kiev, later than yours. I will post photos after!
My last "just arrived" is a Leica IIIc with red shutter, on which I have put a correct 1,5/5cm Sonnar wartime. So, I don't tell anything!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hi Jacques,

yes, really. Here are some pictures it, it still lies partly disassembled on the table :-)

The pictures are compared to an unfortunately broken KIEV II from 1953. So only 3 years difference but a lot of small things that have changed. On the left side the 1950 KIEV II, right side the 1953 KIEV II.

First the serialnumbers of the shutter:



The rangefinder prism, the left one looks Contax like:



The focus wheel, the 1950 one has a Contax style:



The meter scale, the 1950 one has commas instead of points and the engraving looks smoother:



The standfoot, the left one seems to be made out of brass and the grooves on the flip out piece are a little bit deeper inside:



The arrow of the selftimer:



Last but not least the shoe with the serialnumber and the engraved mask of the 1950 one:





More pictures when I have cleaned and reassembled it :-)

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Hi Ulrich,
I had heard of these double engraving 1950 Kiev II, perhaps on this site. And you have one of them! Congratulations!
The external parts of my two Kiev II (serial numbers 503737 and 506446) are the same as yours: same meter scale with commas, same triangular standfoot, but entirely in aluminium, same arrow on the selftimer. Probably this early 1950 is closer to Contaxes II, and contains more Contax parts.
I cannot tell anything about internal parts: I don't dare to disassemble a Kiev/Contax!

The most interesting is of course the front engravings (no "Contax" at the reverse?) and the shoe...

I have just bought a Jena Contax, last batch, from 1951. Perhaps we could meet to compare all that?

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hi Jacques,

there is one more thing, the lever of the selftimer is smaller, not so wide. It's the same as the on on my '49 Kiev II or on my Contax II.

A comparison against a Jena Contax of 1951 would be intresting :-) I did not know that they were built until that year.

And here is the 1950 Kiev II after cleaning and reassembling:





Look at that shiny chrome :-) There you can see the smaller lever.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Ulrich,
About the selftimer lever, I don't see any difference between your 1950 Kiev and my own 1950 ones, or even my 1936 Contax and the 1948 contax Jena. But perhaps I don't look at the correct part?

Once more, it seems that the question of the groove on the distance wheel remains open... All Contaxes have this groove, and it seems there is no rule for Kievs: some early have not, later ones have it... For my two 1950 ones, one has, not the other.

Bravo for the cosmetics. Very impressive! Does it work as fine as it looks?

Now, about Jena Contaxes. It's partly thanks to you that I know better these rare things. The 7th page you sent me a while ago shows the dates and numbers of production of Jena Contaxes and early Kievs, from 1946-47. So, the 1947 Kievs are the rarest ones (some prototypes + 450 production items). After, it's almost a motorway with 2000 1948 Kievs and 3500 in 1949. To compare with c.1400 Jena Contaxes between 1946 and 1951 (last batch of 100 items in 1951). As soon as I receive the 1951 Jena Contax, I will dig up the thread about "Kiev forerunners".

So, thanks again, even if I sweat to undestand German!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Jacques,

the self timer lever is a little bit smaller in the width, just about 1mm. It can be seen at the screw.

About the grooves, yes, all Contaxes have the groove in the middle, my KIEV II 1949 has it also. This must be parts that left over from german production and were mixed with russian parts during assembling. The wheel on my 1950 has the grooves on the side which are typical for the Contax, but does not have a groove in the teeth.

It works really good, the shutter runs as one of a Contax. When I disassembled it I also opened the shutter housing to take a look at the shutter. There is a small part of leather on the bottom of the first curtain that stops it at the end. On original Contax shutters this is glues with shellac, on the one of the 1950 Kiev also :-)

Ahhh, yes... I've read the articels some years ago, the details are gone out of my brain ;-) I also know that there are KIEV II existing that have "Carl Zeiss Jena" engraved in the shoe. So, who knows where these 1950 export KIEV II was built? Maybe in Jena?

Ulrich


http://fotos.cconin.de

After checking, you are right for the lever of the selftimer: it's a bit larger on my 1958 Kiev IIIa. But not on the other Contax/Kiev I own (1936-1950).

About your double engraved 1950 Kiev II, I don't think it could have been made in Jena. In fact, Jena Contaxes were probably only prototypes for Kievs and the Russians had only one idea: make the cameras at home and by themselves. Hence the shipping of all the production material to Kiev as soon as possible. I would even think that a part of the Jena Contaxes were made at Kiev! That would explain why some of the later ones (in the 30500-30600) have a front plate marked KIEB, and always a Jena accessory shoe!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hi Ulrich,
It seems there is the same here:
http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/collect/arsenal/arsenal.htm see collection, Kiev 2 1950, 3.
With double engraving too, on front and on the shoe.

You are no more alone!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Jacques,

nice, the camera on dvdtech looks nearly the same as mine. It's interesting, that the *engraved* double name seems to be used until 1954. Now I am looking for a 1947 Kiev But I think, I'll never get one...

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Polish WZFO START camera that hides in its interior a F21 which allow taking pictures in the back of the camera.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1222011_Start-F21.jpg

Camera I was sold on the auction site Hungarian: http://fenykepezo-kamera.teszvesz.hu/fenykepezogep/analog/index_c1315.html

Omega, absolutely amazing!!! This the first time I see this kind of spy cover for F-21! Thank you very much for posting this, I will add this to catalog.

Best regards,
Vlad

Omega, do you have any more images of this piece? Where did you find it?

Thanks,
Vlad.

Vlad,
I take a picture of my camera and I'll send you good quality photos. Can you give me your e-mail?

Omega, thank you! I will send you a private message.

Vlad

ALBAR 15: Body nr 9315068. Shutter 1 / 30 - 1/1000s
Build quality really bad.
I completely disassembled the mechanism and further adjusted and reassembled.
Calibrated cell.
Now in perfect working condition.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/2722011_Albar15.jpg

The quality is typical...
But with 1/1000 speed you have a rare specimen!

Best regards,
Juhani

Hi Juhani,

The Albar-15 is certainly a fairy rare camera, but the entries (only 4) in the Wiki catalog suggest that the version with a top speed of 1/1000 may be the more common. I have seen very few with a top speed of 1/500 and I have never seen one with the shutter speed range of 1 sec to 1/1000, so perhaps that is the rarest version. If there are any other Albar-15 owners out there, please add your cameras to the Wiki Catalog.

David.

Must do some homework, but I have seen three with 1/500 and one with 1/1000 and also one with a different shutter speed engraving type: speeds "along" circle and not "through". I do have a picture at home to upload!

The different dial picture now uploaded, and added speed info to mine. Next weekend I will get one more serial number.

Best regards,
Juhani

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1032011_Albar15_1.JPG

One more "1/500s" from Finland, body serial 9314679, with rare lens 50mm f/1,8 Helios-77M-4 serial 92005985



Best regards,
Juhani