A curious Contax II

Hello,

I have received lately a very curious Contax II.
It had looked strange to me by the photos of the seller. No stopper for the selftimer and square shaped accessory shoe: two unusual details. The chrome was unusually shining. No visible serial number. As for the lens: a 2,8/5cm black Tessar of 1931. So, after some mails with Altix, I bought it.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1890.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1893.JPG

I expected to receive a camera made with mixed Dresden and Jena parts.
But in fact, it is a completely original one, with different weights. For this camera: 505g for the body only (478g for the Contax II "O series"), 144g for the back (112g only for the "O") and 175g for my Jena Contax s/n 30xxx. But the back of the Jena Conatx is made of brass.

And if I try to inverse the backs, it's impossible...

Concerning the back, the different of weight is sensible. The camera is "solid" in the hands, without these creakings which are common on Contaxes and Kievs. But the Inside too is different: the reinforcements, the position of the film plate, the absence of rivets...
This no s/n camera first:

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1974.JPG
Then, the Contax II "O series"

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1975.JPG

Inside, the screws are different in size (generally bigger on this camera), and sometimes in position.

The camera without s/n is always the first.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1990.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1991.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1992.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1993.JPG

The shutter appearance is different too. It seems more light and "rubberized", compared to the one of a Contax II:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1942.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1947.JPG

As for the bayonet, it provides a minimum distance of around 0,80m (not engraved), against 0,90m for the normal range...


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1886.JPG

And there is a hole on the back, like on the early Feds, perhaps to regulate correctly that new range.

Jacques, very interesting Contax. What about the speeds? Does it have 1/250 or 1/200 ?

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Some other interesting dйtails.
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1873.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1913.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1958.JPG


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/3042015_DSCF1951.JPG

It seems that all is the same, and all is a bit different between this Contax and the regular ones.
Unhappily, I could not dismount completely this camera. The main screws are too tight, which let me think that this camera was probably never dismounted.

In this camera, some parts come from Dresden, some others will be made in Jena for the Contax and Kiev Jenas. And some others are unknown and were never seen before...

We think that this camera is a prototype, certainly between the last Dresden Contaxes (O series) and the first Jena Contaxes, all that leading towards our Kievs.

The possible story: after the demand of the Red Army, Jena tries to build prototypes with the minimum of blue prints. This camera could be one of these. Some blue prints are found again after, so that the regular Jena Contaxes are more similar to the Contax II than this camera.

We wait for your comments...
Of course, I have plenty of other photos if needed!

Jacques.

I think it is important to mention that the position of engravings "B" "2" "5" on the shutter speed selector is different from the standard one so that the cocking the shutter for these speeds became easier. It seems that the shutter cocking mechanism was redesigned.

There is also no possibility to adjust the vertical alignment of rangefinder as on the standard models.

The self-timer construction seems to be different. At least it has lacks two stoppers of the self-timer lever and its housing is larger as the standard one.

The camera has no numbering of main camera blocks like on the mass-production models. There is no number on bayonet at all. This means that the bayonet was assembled for this camera only.

I also believe that this camera is some sort of prototype or a camera that was created to show Soviet authorities the possible design of post-war Jena Contaxes or Kievs.

This camera has the regular range, Ulrich.
So, 1/125th and 1/250th.
The 1/100th and 1/200th were for the Z (and some A) pre series of Contax II.
But the present camera doesn't belong to that generation.

Thanks, Altix, for the complements.

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Excuse my question, but what makes you both sure that it is a postwar camera? Couldn't it be that this is a prototype of the normal prewar Contax II? ;-)

-- OK, question answered by Jacques ---

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

There is something else, about the lens, that time.
It is a black Tessar made in 1931 which is coated (first and last glasses at least: I have not looked inside).

The coating was not deposit before 1936 or 37 by Zeiss (I don't remember exactly when) and so, it must have been made after on this lens. Not impossible, of course. But unusual.

It would have been much easier to put a contemporary coated lens. So, why?

Jacques.
Correction: the T coating was patented in 1935, but was kept secret for five years, by Kuc.

Jacques, I have read the "conkie" documents again and have found one interesting passage in them.

In german it says this:

"17.04.1946 Um die Erstellung der Kamera-Nullserie von 100 Stьck schnell zum Anlauf zu bringen, wird angeordnet, dass bis zum 30.05. Teile auch von Hand oder auf halbfertigen Werkzeugen zu erstellen sind. Fьr de 100 Kameras muss Material fьr 300 Sдtze angefertigt werden. In neun Untergruppen werden Gehдuse, Gehдusekappe, Rьckwand, Objektivplatte, Vorlaufwerk, Hemmwerk, Vorhang, Vorhang komplett und Verschlusskappe in Jena vormontiert und zur weiteren Verarbeitung nach Saalfeld geschickt."

Google translates it to this:

"04/17/1946: To bring the production of camera-pilot series of 100 units to start soon, is arranged such that up to 30.05. Parts by hand or semi-finished tools to are creating. For de 100 cameras Material for 300 sets will be called for. in nine Subgroups are housing, housing cap, rear, lens drive forward work Hemmwerk, Preassembled curtain, curtain completely and cap in Jena and for further processing sent to Saalfeld."

Interesting is, that it says that camera parts have to be made by hand or with with semi-finished tools. That could be a reason why the screws on your camera are of othe size than on normal Contax II. So maybe the camera you have is one that was made of this hand made parts?

Ulrich


http://fotos.cconin.de

Yes, Ulrich. It could be something like that.
A prototype made before the regular series.
And certainly, there were other ones, to assure the Soviets that Jena was always able to make cameras.
And when I see the quality of the chrome, really splendid, I wonder too if it was not a camera for exhibition rather than for use.

Anyway, certainly it was made before the drawings and blueprints were restored. If not, the differences with the Contax II O series and the Jena Contaxes would not be so important.

Just a detail: the rangefinder is of the Jena type, but the colours are yellow/green (Dresden, then Kiev patch) rather grey on grey (Jena Contaxes)

Thanks for the extract!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hi. My suspicion is that this camera was made up from blanks recovered from the Zeiss Dresden factory. Firstly, the engraving of the stops on the focus mount is different either a Dresden or Jena Contax, or the Kiev. Same applies to the rewind knob and self-timer release. The back looks to be hand-made from sheet material with extra re-inforcing to take the place of the pleats in the standard camera back - probably no new completed camera backs were available. The 'C' of Contax is also a different shape to any I have seen on Dresden or Jena. This may fit with the 1946 batch of hand-made cameras. For the Jena Contaxes and Kiev's, missing dies were reverse-engineered from available parts, new blueprints were drawn up (the camera was originally to be called the Volga before Kiev was arrived at). Very interesting camera you have there!

Carefully seeing photos I can say the following:
The difference of weight is due the availiability of materials.
also to screws anf black paint on Shutter curtain.
Some manufacturing diferences is due mixing old Dresden parts with new manufacture.
The differnce in focusing range- is the absence of a limiting screw, which was result of a manufacturing without a previous plan.
The most importante is the chrome! It seems from the same procedures of TSVVS! Please compare!
This cвmera could be a reprototypyng for a new manufacturing issue
Regards
LP

A very strange point is the location of flash contact!
Placed in a difficult place with PC terminal !
In 1947 there were no contacs in such form They only appeared in 1952!
The contact is do well placed that it seems not to be made outside factory.
More the position needs to have na imperative modification in the self-timer structure
This can be confirmed by the engravings on outside release.
Regards
LP
My dear Jacques I shall contract you as a cвmera Sherlock to find such rarities !

Thanks , Steve.
About the chrome, I share your opinion, Luiz.
It's the same quality on this prototype and the TSVVS, just perhaps a bit more shiny on the Contax.
Since the beginning, I have put the two cameras side by side. The general metallurgy is of course different (neat square angles for the Contax concerning the two plates and the cover; rounded angles for the TSVVS), but the "feeling in the hand" is quite the same. The sensation that these two cameras were the best for these years.

I take some more photos about the bayonet mount and the engravings.

Jacques.

So, about the focus range.
It's not a question of limiting screw, but really a difference between the two helicoпds.

Please have a look at these two photos.

First, the Contax prototype


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/252015_DSCF2006.JPG

Then the Contax O series


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/252015_DSCF2007.JPG

The helicoпd is at infinity for the two cameras. But on the prototype, the 0,9m has approximatively the same position as the 1m on the Contax II O series (and the Jena Contaxes, and the Kievs..)

On the whole range the positions of the same distances are different.
So, I think that the helicoпd is different too. And perhaps even the regulation of the rangefinder ??

As I was taking photos, I have shot the "1,3" distance. Interesting!

The prototype

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/252015_DSCF2008.JPG

The Contax II O series

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/252015_DSCF2009.JPG

The TSVVS

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/252015_DSCF2010.JPG

The Jena Contax s/n 30536

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/252015_DSCF2011.JPG

So, there is a point only on this camera, the other ones have a coma between the 1 and the 3.
Concerning the "3", the head is flat on the Dresden O series and on the prototype. The other ones are rounded.
As for the engraving, the finest is on the prototype, no doubt.

Two last photos about the mount.
Always some differences...

The prototype:

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/252015_DSCF2016.JPG

The Contax II O series:

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/252015_DSCF2014.JPG


We really think, Altix and me, that this helicoпd/mount was specially made for this camera. The problem is that there is absolutely no inscription anywhere (at least on the parts I could dismount).

Thanks for the nickname "Sherlock", Luiz I must say I have been rather lucky these last months.

If somebody wants other photos...

Amitiйs. Jacques.

A few remarks on this camera.

Here is an illustration that the shutter setting mechanism on this camera is different. The position of the engravings are not on the usual places (yellow color shows standard positions).

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/452015_G1.jpg

And here is the bottom of the camera with back door removed.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/452015_G.jpg

Two bolts are shown that hold the shutter and the self-timer. One sees that the bolt that holds self-timer on its place is displaced from its standard position. On the right is a simple sketch of lower part of the self-timer mechanism. One sees the corresponding bolt (black). In the prototype the position of this bolt is displaced. The self-timer housing or even its mechanism should be different in order to allow the bolt hold the self-timer housing.

It seems that people who made this Contax had only part of all measurements of original Contax. It is hand made with many parts that were produced only for this camera.

Luiz idea about the synchronization is very interesting. I wonder too how one can synchronize the shutter with flash socket on the left side of the camera. The Rontgen shots of the camera could say more.

Dear Altix,

Many thanks for your schemes...
No doubt. The inner modifications are of course much more important than what appears.
The problem is that all is screwed too tight: impossible to have a look inside. So, I certainly will ask Dr Mladek to Xray this camera, if possible. Unless somebody has a better idea?

Jacques.