Military Kiev on Ebay

An interesting military "No Name" Kiev on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=250209117557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=015

Jupiter-12 lens has an export markings "Fabrique en URSS" (see picture #3). I doubt that such markings were common for soviet lenses while I have met only "Made in USSR" versions for a while?

Regards,
Aidas

Hello,

100 USD is a nice price but I doubt it's a genuine military item.

Best,
Jed

Hello all,

This Kiev has a s/n #76xxx.
It is known that "No Names" were manufactured only during the years 1963-64.
Besides, the announcement says :"maybe constructed from some salvaged German components…" Were "German components" of Contax II still available in 1976 ?!
I agree with Jed : it is certainly a repainted Kiev…

Best regards,
Michel.

Hi,

That's ok with camera - I don't like it either, but are the markings "Fabrique en URSS" common for soviet lens?

Regards,
Aidas

Hello Aidas,

First time I see a French marking on a J12 Lens

It seems to be quite uncommon, your're right.

Best,
Jed

I believe everything is a fake including "Fabrique en URSS" and the paint wear,

Very interesting!
I enlarged the picture of "Fabrique en URSS" It is an interesting remake,
.... Made in USSR
Fab riquй en USSR

Fab was added
the M originated the r and i
the a turned to be a q
the d turned to be a u
it was not difficult add an aigu accent to й
the i was changed to e

The seller writes "Contax II made for the russian army…"
SO… what is the reason to write "Fabriquй…" on a lens provided to the russian army ?
Beside, in you write "Fabriquй…" in French, you must write URSS and not USSR !
Michel.

... but it's written "URSS" not vice versa ...

I saw such a camera some 10 years ago in Moscow. IIRC, it was a 1960's Kiev 4a in brand new condition for $150. If the price was not so high, I might have bought it. In stead, I bought a Kiev 5 and Kiev 3 for less.:-) I assumed it was a factory made camera for the military.

Kievuser

To Aidas,

Sorry, Aidas, wrong spectacles !!!
You're right.

Regards,
Michel.

Interesting modification if only paint job wasn't peeling all over the place...

1. regarding lens, if it was repainted, should've been easy to silk screen the "Fabrique en URSS" as well on it... it does not look to be engraved to me...
2. Army stuff usually has the hammer, sickle and the star, absence of which which definitely makes stand out as someone's home job.

Vlad

My god! winning bid $1,225... well it's going back to Russia :) I know this buyer, I just sold him my Global 35 ... And Zhang was asking whether there are serious Russian collectors
Vlad.

This camera sold for $1225.00 to a Russian camera dealer. It did have a small hammer and sickle on the front plate just below the rangefinder window ... look closely. So, maybe it was a real Soviet Army camera after all ... like Zhang said!

Regards, Bill

I have to jump and declare this fake, but come no, guys - 1976 Kiev, with an early 1957, KMZ-made J-9, and some odd-ball 'export'J-12, all painted the same color, aged...
I am not questioning the price - this is free market, and people are entitle to pay whatever they want. but find it very unlikely for this outfit to be real.
If they ever produced military Kievs, then:

1. we would surely know about them by now
2. all parts would be matching as far as years
3. it would surely be better made (look at peeling paing on the chrome J-12.

Well Bill, Yuri does present a very convincing argument... It is all mismatched...

I'm happy that nobody of us were participating in this crazy auction ... And the buyer is acting in behalf of rich enough russian camera collector ...

Regards,

Aidas

I think I saw one like this for sale a long time ago. And you never know what is genuine and what isn't if you can't compare to an existing one. Anyway, this proves that there is seroius collectors in Russia, like said!

Smena rules

Hi Yuri,

Yes I am unsure about this camera. All of your points about mis-matching dates on lenses, etc. are why I think it can be fake.
However, it did have a "no-name" front plate only with a Soviet Army logo or marking, so this is unusual, but can also easily be faked.
Of course it could be something that was used by the army but not "made for" the army by arsenal. But even in this case I would think that if a camera was to be used by the Soviet Army, say in a combat zone, where it may have been painted dull green so as not to shine or reflect in the light, then the chrome winding knobs will be painted green too, especially since the chrome lenses are painted!
So all in all I think it is a fake, but very nice for the collection and I will admit that I bid on it myself, much less than it went for, so my bid was not put in by the bidnapper!
Maybe we will find out more about it from one of our Russian collector friends.


Regards, Bill

Bill,

As everyone alread said, I also think this is a fake. But the one I saw in Moscow was a brand new 1960's Kiev. I doubt if people faked Russian cameras 10 years ago?

quote:

---

Originally posted by nightphoto


This camera sold for $1225.00 to a Russian camera dealer. It did have a small hammer and sickle on the front plate just below the rangefinder window ... look closely. So, maybe it was a real Soviet Army camera after all ... like Zhang said!

Regards, Bill

---

Hi Zhang,

Didn't mean to say you thought this one was real, but that you thought one like it you saw was real.
Maybe there are real Soviet Army Kievs, but I have never seen any that I knew were authentic. I think there were fakes being made 10 years ago.

Have you bought any rare Russian stuff in China recently, Zhang?

Regards, Bill