Fed-Arsenal

Wow! Amazing reading, many thanks!

Best regards,
Juhani

Congrats and thanks for your job, Altix and Alzo... Fabulous!

If the cameras were sold only in 1947/48, as it is suggested by the page 172, it explains why we can find different lenses. The "one turn" Fed lenses, made for the 1a, and which probably came at Arsenal's with the Fed body parts. And early "Moskva" lenses, made in 1948, put on the bodies after the decision of selling the cameras...

As for the "incomplete production", certainly they had hoped to mount several hundreds of cameras with the available spare parts. But it would have been necessary to make special tools to achieve the work. Probably too much for the factory: the present was already on the side of the Vega-Kiev project...

So, certainly we will never know how many of these cameras were made. But at least, now we know they were made at Arsenal's!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Yes!!! Altix, Alzo, this is it! Without a doubt the most concrete evidence that puts all doubts to rest about the existence of this model, thank you for all your amazing work, I know how much labor and negotiations that took from both of you!

Dear Juhani, Jacques and Vlad,
yes, probably the story is not as complete as we would like to see it. some further research is needed. This archive is rather a collection of letters, orders and year-reports, so there is no technical drawings or documentation. I've got an impression that the rests of FED (and FED-Arsenal) tools after unsuccessful FED Arsenal program were transported to KMZ. I believe it is the most probable scenario since FED factory in Kharkov subordinated to another Ministry. It is also important to mention that Arsenal was unable to produce its own optics in 1945-48.

I would like to thank Alzo personally for his persistence. I was skeptical all the time that the work performed by Alzo is possible in the condition when archive workers are persuaded that 70 years old documents should remain secret at least one more century.

altix

wow Altix.
You are the Man,
loved to read all this.
How do you think about that #00216 has no hollow? Could it be that the Arsenal maids knew that it wasn't needed, even before KMZ cowboys did. Ilyas's #00127 looks the same, at least the engravings on the top plate, wonder if there is no hollow either, wish Ilya could post another picture. Bill's #00020 looks definitely like a fake, good he sold it. So I need to live for some years more till all the archieves in Ukraine open and we will know more about Feds too.
Altix, thank you so much for all this

Another one, the s/n 00010:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1052016_Fed Arsenal 10 7.jpg

Yes, and this "lovely" price - 8000 $

quote:

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Originally posted by Zoom


http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/history/davidov-from-lupe.html (a brief plants' history and an information about numbers)

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Interesting to me is that the old Arsenal plant number was #393 and the new KMZ plant number was also #393.
Wish Zoom could tell more about this coincidence, the timeline or if there was intention behind that.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lenny

Interesting to me is that the old Arsenal plant number was #393 and the new KMZ plant number was also #393.
Wish Zoom could tell more about this coincidence, the timeline or if there was intention behind that.

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It is simple: number 393 was free... Kiev Arsenal plant joined the plant number 235 NKV (aka Votkinsk Machine Building Plant) and ceased to exist as a separate entity.
See also http://www.zenitcamera.com/articles/cameras/zenit-prehistory.html (in Russian, sorry).

Thanks Zoom.


Amazing is that the first FED-Arsenal camera might have been produced in Kiev in January 1946
and at the same time the first Red-Flag was produced in Berdsk.
When the FED factory moved back from Berdsk to Kharkov in September 1946 Arsenal was still producing FED-Arsenal cameras for 1 more year, even when it was only in small quantities.

Is it known how many FED-Arsenal camera were produced ?

quote:

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Originally posted by Alfa2


Is it known how many FED-Arsenal camera were produced ?

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No. For the moment, we know seven of them, the last one having s/n 00222 (cf the wiki).
We don't know either if really 222 cameras were made... Probably we will discover other ones in a near future, thanks to this thread!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Thanks Jacques.

Hi guys! Help to identificate. Fake or not?


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_image.jpeg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_TD0alnuH9KE.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_4Qor-j3KKJc.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_shVRVC_rWOU.jpg



http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1752016_zJ7wZt68jZw.jpg

quote:

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Originally posted by elnur

Hi guys! Help to identificate. Fake or not?

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Hi Elnur,

this is very easy, 3 screws under the rewind knob.

Thx a lot Lenny )) its really so easy ))

Lenny,

Shouldn't you add this camera to the WIKI list with a note concerning authenticity? If this camera is not authentic then shouldn't it be compared with other examples known?

Regards, Bill

quote:

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Originally posted by nightphoto

Lenny,

Shouldn't you add this camera to the WIKI list with a note concerning authenticity? If this camera is not authentic then shouldn't it be compared with other examples known?

Regards, Bill

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Hi Bill,

I'm not the wiki guru, I only offered to arrange wiki entries if they are messed up. Everybody should feel free to add to the wiki what seems to be important for them.

To me, it's not important to add photos of fakes, and this one with those 3 screws was a kind of easy case. Maybe it would be worth to check closely how well the top plate was engraved, but I think it won't help much in the future.

Before I copied many photos of fakes too and put them among the original ones in my base, with bad results, because they should be separated.

No, I wouldn't add fakes into the wiki, but if there are fakes already in the wiki I would mention what's wrong with them. But those who own those fakes might delete that the next days.

Our goal should be to teach everybody how to recognize fakes, like you did with describing the corners around the shoe on your #00020, because every single collector has to make his own decision to buy a camera which could be faked.

Hi Lenny,

As far as I know the authenticity of any of the FED-Arsenals known and in the WIKI is in question. They may all be fakes or only some may be. Until it is proven that actual FED cameras were made at Arsenal, not just intended to be made there as the documents shown on this thread indicate, we can't know if cameras were made there. An actual passport would have no doubt been made for any cameras made at Arsenal at that time. If a passport for a FED-Arsenal is found and shown to be authentic, then we may be more sure. But Lenny, you did seem to rewrite the entry taking away any text that cast doubt on the authenticity of these FED-Arsenals? Or, am I wrong?

Regards, Bill

quote:

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Originally posted by nightphoto

Hi Lenny,

As far as I know the authenticity of any of the FED-Arsenals known and in the WIKI is in question. They may all be fakes or only some may be. Until it is proven that actual FED cameras were made at Arsenal, not just intended to be made there as the documents shown on this thread indicate, we can't know if cameras were made there. An actual passport would have no doubt been made for any cameras made at Arsenal at that time. If a passport for a FED-Arsenal is found and shown to be authentic, then we may be more sure. But Lenny, you did seem to rewrite the entry taking away any text that cast doubt on the authenticity of these FED-Arsenals? Or, am I wrong?

Regards, Bill

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Bill, didn't you read the last posts Altix wrote with documents from the FED archives? I'm sure that FED-Arsensal cameras were produced and in Vlad's post you can read the same. I also know that Jacques is of the same opinion and there are others. It is more known about FED-Arsenal than about Red-Flag because nobody saw the passport Princelle was talking about. So I don't know how you come to your conclusion that these cameras are still in doubt.

The first batch of FED-Arsenal might have gone to the military with all the passports, some of the others might have been given as gifts, I don't think that they needed to make passports for them.

But you are free to put #00022 into the wiki too. To me #00022 is a fake, same as your #00020 was. I'm not sure about #00216 because there is no hollow at the rewind clutch.