50 Years - Soviet Ukraine

I am wondering what year would be the 50th anniversary of the Soviet Ukraine, or "50 Years Soviet Ukraine", as I have bought a KIEV leather case, without camera, that has a printed metal plaque with a commemorative logo for that occasion (see photos below).

To me this metal plaque looks to be original, added to the case at the factory, but I don't know for sure. Any ideas?

I believe the case is for a KIEV-4a and I may want to get a camera for the case that is the correct year. Any help would be appreciated.







Regards, Bill

Hello,

You should look for a 1967 camera

Best,
Jed

Well I'm sorry to say that Jed, but technically that's not true from a historical perspective. 1967 for 50th anniversary from Great October Revolution in 1917. Ukraine became "Soviet" republic in 1919 and was part of military alliance with RSFR (Russian Soviet Federative Republic) with Kharkov as a capital and then in 1922 became officially a republic in "Soviet Union" which was officially established on Dec. 30 1922.

Bill, I don't really know whether they count from 1919 or 1922 for these anniversary cameras since it can be either way. so it'll be either 1969 or 1972.

Vlad

If I am to guess I would say 1969 though, since that's when (1919) "Soviet" Ukraine Republic was established.

Thanks Vlad and Jed! I just found some Ukranian commemorative stamps on Ebay, commemorating the 50th year of Soviet Ukraine and they are from 1967, so you are right about that Vlad. So, I will look for a 1967 Kiev 4a.

Has anyone ever seen this "50 Years Soviet Ukraine" plaque on a case before?

Regards, Bill

Wait.. '67??? I was saying '69... I guess the stamps are not accurate either if they count from the revolution.

Vlad.

My thick history book says Ukraina got independent 1917, and in 1919 power in Ukraina was taken by communists, leading to becoming allied to USSR in same year 1919. The year 1922 is not even mentioned in my finnish history book!
So my vote goes for 1969 in this case and for this case.
But nowadays Ukraina could say they are 91 years old in 2008?

http://www.cedricfan.sivut.ws/Juhani's%20website%20ORIGINAALIT/

Yea.. little discrepancy is though, Juhani, that there was no USSR in 1919, only RSFSR. USSR was official established as I said in 1922.

I agree with Vlad. My poor history knowledge also refers to 1922.

Regards,
Aidas

Hello all,

I'm not 100% positive but I still belive it's a case commemorating the 50th year of the Soviet Ukraine founded on 25 december 1917.

Please see :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic

all the best,
Jed

The auction for the stamps says 1967. I will check further.

http://cgi.ebay.com/RUSSIA-USSR-1967-Ukraine-50-3-FULL-SHEETS-MNH_W0QQitemZ360009042250QQihZ023QQcategoryZ3495QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Regards, Bill

BTW Bill,
Your case is quite rare !

Best,
Jed

Jed,

the Wikipedia says it was declared by bolsheviks in Ukraine as USSR in December 1917 but that did not take since bolsheviks got pushed out from Independent Ukraine until 1919... in 1919 it officially became Soviet.. it's all very confusing, I guess Soviets would want to say that it was in 1917 thus making 1967, but by official records it really was 1919 when the communist government was established in Ukraine. I guess we're all right to some degree, the history is changed by whoever tells it, which is really the case in most oppressive regimes.. Maybe Soviets wanted to sweep those 2 years of fighting in the Ukraine under the rug and just say that it became "Soviet" in 1917.. very likely the case... I guess it's hard to determine the age of this case by just history alone, we also need to get inside the minds of the directors of Arsenal factory.

Vlad.

Here is a link I found to a bronze commemorative medallion. It looks like Jed is correct and the celebration took place in 1967.

http://collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=9259

So that is the year of Kiev 4a camera I will look for.

Regards, Bill

oh boy, gotta love the propaganda!

Well as I can remember what I was learning at middle school, after Great Soviet Socialist Revolution in Petrograd on October 25 1917 (Nov. 7 by modern calendar) Ukraine suddenly became free and without any government. Tsar was gone. So anyone who had gun or rifle declared himself a new Ukrainian government. It was literally 100th different organization (people called them bandits) who fearlessly fight with each other for power. One of such organization was Ukrainian Bolsheviks who on December 25 1917 declare new Ukrainian Socialistic Republic. So date December 25 1917 is officially birthday of UkSSR. The problems that Ukrainian Bolsheviks has no any power, or support, or authority at that time and can equally declare that sky is falling or bear is vegetable. They was dissolved in few month and no one would remember this if not because this facts (possibly made up facts) let Red Army in 1919 enter Ukraine and on behave or Ukrainian Bolsheviks seas the power. In 1922, delegation from 4 republics RSFSR, UkSSR, Belarusian and Asian republic officially created Soviet Union. And from December 30, 1922 Ukraine became part of the USSR. So I guess all of you right. Official birthday of UkSSR is Dec. 25 1917. But really UkSSR appear only by 1919 and became part of USSR by the end of 1922.
So correct camera for this case most likely has to be from 1967, but real UkSSR birthday should be in 1919, when Red Army entered and occupied Ukraine.

Not to dispute anything but only to add a bit of interest to the historic disussion. Did you know that Americans soldiers were dispatched to Siberia Russia (some killed) during their civil war?
Here`s an article written by my cousin Joseph. He was there when he was 19 yrs old.
John Demastrie

http://www.pbase.com/johnd1/image/91215215/large

and here`s another article on the subject. I`ll bet only a few Americans know anything of this. I wonder if it `s all forgotten as well in Russia?

http://www.militaria.com/8th/WW1/siberia.html

Okynek: "Bear is a vegetable" - Love it! LOL

John, that is extremely interesting fact, as many things in USSR especially during cold war, presence of Americans on Russian soil would not have been mentioned. An interesting modern fact though - do you know there is a contingent of US Marines in Republic of Georgia right now? One of the reasons Putin is so pissed at Georgia, because US trains the Georgian national guard to potentially join NATO.. just an interesting fact since we touched the subject of US being on USSR territory. Sorry for OT guys.

Vlad

John,
I know about this episode in Northern Russia and in fact I have a collection of approximately 110 small original photographs taken by a British photographer in 1918-1919, of the railway and railroad cars, military posts, American and British soldiers, and Russian soldier and local residents taken between Archangel and Vladivostok. It is an interesting episode.

Thanks for posting those links!

Regards, Bill

Hi Bill,
Yes I bet those photos would be quite interesting to see indeed.
In Massachusetts returning WW1 veterans of foreign war campaigns were recognized with a $50 or a $100 bonus and citation of appreciation but my cousin never got his. He fought the state of Massachusetts for many many years because the Russian expedition was never officially recognized in the realm of battle in WW1 or something along that line. I remember an article a few years before he died (approx 1990) where the state of Massachusetts finally recognized the guarding of the RR`s in Vladivostok as a bona fide WW1 campaign. Joseph did in fact finally receive his long overdue bonus check from the state along with a few other recipients that he also fought for on their behalf. It was a matter of principle.
Here`s another interesting article :
http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/pdf/WWI%20Siberia.pdf
John

quote:

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Originally posted by uccmmcpo

I wonder if it `s all forgotten as well in Russia?

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I know about these events from a school history course.
But I went to school in USSR, and now don't know the present historical education quality...

In general, such impression, that all became worse...