Fed Berdsk - Known Examples

I see! Now I understand, I was confused by this all-enveloping umbrella of Berdsk name.. I agree, if you call it Berdsk then it should be ones that are actually made in Berdsk, otherwise it's just 1E.. well that sucks then, now I need to find a unit close to 183,000 range...

Thank you very much for the clarification!

Vlad

Right ... but it is uncertain that any are from Berdsk, unless you get one with a passport that says "Berdsk" and I have never seen that, although Princelle says there is a passport with "Berdsk" ... but for a "RED FLAG-KNAP"!

Regards, Bill

I've updated the text in Wiki, please let me know if it's acurate and I understood the result of this discussion correctly.

Thank you!
Vlad

oh boy, Bill, another can of worms ... I guess the search continues...

And this is why I have not yet tried to get me a Berdsk, as it would propably not be one...

Smena rules

Hello everyone,
Apologies for my recent absence, I've been stuck out in the wilder parts of Azerbaijan for the past couple of weeks and out of touch. I am now just catching up with all the latest posts.
This subject of the so called "Fed Berdsk" (or Fed 1e)is fascinating. Of course this was an extremely turbulent and difficult time in the history of Fed, and perhaps we can never know the real facts.
I have only one Fed 1e "Berdsk" in my collection. If I remember correctly the serial number begins 174XXX, (I will check when I am back in the UK towards the end of June and enter it into the Wiki).
The main point I want to make is that in addition to the unique engraving on the Fed 1e as opposed to all other Fed 1's my particular "Berdsk" has no visible screws in the baseplate. As far as I know this peculiarity applies only to the Fed 1 e. It would be interesting to know how many or what percentage of the "Berdsk's" from our own collections have this physical difference to other types of the Fed 1. Perhaps this information can be of help in pieceing together this mysterious period in the history of Fed.
Cheers, Jim

Yes, and to re-answer Steve's question I guess, no Steve, this camera was NOT made in Siberia according to Jacques' and Bill's research I guess but is classified as Berdsk . So it's authentic, it's a Berdsk but not true Berdsk...

Good to have you back Jim!

For the uneducated like myself here, what exactly is the baseplate? The bottom plate? and no visible screws you mean no screws? or sunk screws?

Hello again,

Juhani, I disagree with your comment,

"And this is why I have not yet tried to get me a Berdsk, as it would propably not be one..."

My point is that the so called "Berdsk" is a type of Fed 1, (Fed 1 e) in it's own right regardless of where it was put together. Maybe it was assembled in Berdsk, maybe it wasn't, and perhaps we will never know.
Nevertheless through this unique Forum and the information that we exchange with each other we are constantly gaining more information about many Soviet cameras, not just the Fed 1 of course, but all Soviet cameras and equipment.
Like many of us collectors who take part in this forum, the Fed 1 to my mind is a very special camera, and the Fed 1 e is especially interesting in as much as the parts must have been manufactured in mid 1941, (just before the move to Berdsk)and that period was withoubt doubt extremely traumatic for the Fed workers and their families especially knowing that the German army were advancing and that soon Kharkov would be in enemy hands.
So to me my "Fed 1 e" counts a valued camera in my collection. Each time I look at it I think of the suffering that those Fed workers must have endured during those difficult times, yet they still continued to work even in the knowledge that they would soon be invaded by the enemy.
Of course will never solve all the mysteries of Fed, but through our exchanges, and the vast knowledge of our members we are constantly moving closer to a better understanding of these times in the history of the Soviet people themselves. How fascinating!!!!
Cheers and regards, Jim

Hi Vlad,

I don't have a Fed 1 to hand at the moment, but as far as I remember there are either two, or three countersunk screws visible on outside of the underside of the baseplate of every type of Fed 1 except for the Fed 1 e.(The baseplate meaning the removable bottom plate of the camera).
On The Fed 1 e that I have these screws are not visible, (The baseplate is "clean" apart from the thumb twist for baseplate removal) As far as I know this physical difference applies only to the fed 1 e "Berdsk". I wish I had the camera with me at the moment so that I could explain more fully, but perhaps Bill, or Jacques can clarify this point better than I am able.
Best regards, Jim

Vlad, Hello again. I need to make a correction about what I said earlier regarding the baseplate screws on the Fed 1 as I may have mislead you. I had said that no screws were visible on the baseplate of a Fed 1 e, when in fact there will be three visible screws, (I had fogotten the screwed tripod mount) which is held by three visible screws.
Now that I remember, there are in fact five screws on the baseplate. Three holding the tripod mount, and two other screws about one and a half inches, or 4cm apart in the centre, and towards one edge of the baseplate. On some Fed 1e,"Berdsk" it is these two latter screws that are not visible.
As far as I can say, if you have doubts about about whether your camera is a "Fed 1 e Berdsk" and it doesn't have these two screws as on all your other Fed 1 cameras, then it is definately a "Berdsk". I hope that I have explained myself clearly this time, if not no doubt others can correct me.
Cheers, Jim.

Hello,
Thanks, Bill for your confirmation.
But I wonder what "Lesopark" means? Has anybody an idea? Is it the general address for Fed factories? If we look at other passports(always in DVD collection), we only find "Lesopark 27" and "Lesopark 54". Are they units of productions, buildings? Perhaps the two...

So, as for me, I own two 1e which are probably from Berdsk (180971 for the S and 182912). To Jim: they both have their 5 screws on the baseplate.

If we try to summarize, we could say that:
-A part of the 1e were made in Kharkov, probably up to c. 180000 at least,
-Then the 1e were made in Berdsk (# c. 180000 to c. 184000), perhaps only till the end of 1942, according to Zoom.
-The production officially ceased and resumed in 1946 with the NKAP Red Flag, always in Berdsk. Maybe they were all made in Berdsk.
-The factory was restored in Kharkov and the post WW2 production begins with the new Fed 1f.

How does that sound ?(with many perhaps and maybe!)
What puzzles me a bit is that interruption in the serial numbers between c. 184000 and 200000. Possibly they started their new numeration to celebrate the new factory. But in that case, the NKAP would have been made entirelyin Kharkov... And the passport mentioned by Princelle says the contrary.

So we jump from a mystery to an other. We have lost about 16000 Fed. But did they ever exist? Has anybody seen them? Sherlock Holmes, help!

Amitiйs. Jacques.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jacques M.

But I wonder what "Lesopark" means?

---

A forest park. There: address.

Some time graduation:
30 December 1938 (SNK order) and 7 January 1939 (NKVD order) "kommuna" was reorganized to "kombinat" (industrial complex) leaded by NKVD (USSR). (SNK -- Sovet Narodnykh Komissarov -- the Government)
From 22 February 1941 (by SNK order) the FED plant was leaded by NKAP (aviation industry department).
From September to December 1941 -- the evacuation to Berdsk.
According the GKO order from 23.10.1942 all plant optical manufactory transferred to NKV.
In 1942 all FED electric drills manufactoring was transferred to Tushino, Moscow.
Labour Red Banner (Flag) order decorating -- 16 September 1945.
From 09.09.1946 -- the re-evacuation to Kharkov.
A recommencement -- up to 1948 year.

Very precious for the history of Fed!
Many thanks, Zoom.

Jacques.

You see ?

This is why you should collect Leica's !! :-)

Made in Wetzlar almost forever. :-)

No brain drain. :-)

Steve :-)

Steve - LOL! For me it's not even a choice - money-wise it's either 270 Russian cameras or 3 Leicas. .

Jim, I will check my camera first opportunity I get, thank you for that bit of info.

One thing I've thought of I don't see why can't we start our own re-classification of some cameras here... I know it will get confusing if people go by JLP but do we have enough experts here to create our own system. One thing with print medium is once it's out, it's set in stone unless next edition comes out. And good thing about having a web site that we can easily change stuff right away.

Vlad

Jim, I still have 5 visible screws on my 1e.. I don't think these screws mean much... they probably went away with them sometime in mid-production of 1e... My serial # is somewhere above in this forum thread.

Vlad.

Hi Vlad,

As far as I know, (and I could be wrong) if a Fed 1 has only three visible screws in the base, then it is definately a Fed 1 e, assuming that other parameters are correct, engraving, etc.
I assume that there are also quite a few of these cameras with five visible screws, so they are also genuine Fed 1 e, providing other criteria matches of course.
I really can't imagine that anybody would try to fake one of these cameras when could just as easily fake a "Red Flag" and ask a much higher price.
My particular Fed 1 e has only three visible screws in the base, and to be perfectly honest I would never have noticed but for reading about this in Princelle and later checking just out of interest and curiosity. JLP himself says that only some Fed 1 e camera baseplates show this difference, but he doesn't say how many.
Cheers,Jim.

You are all trying to make the FED factory fit the western mold. With distinct hard transitions at specific times!

It was more like: Well we still have parts so lets "waste not want not" and use them all before we change to the new design! Or, we already know how to meet production goals with this design! Lets not take a chance on missing the goals until we have to!

Let me give a concrete example. Final QC for the Pentacon Six was done at the camera shop not the factory in the DDR. When you bought one, the shop checked that it was fully functional in front of you before they sold it to you. Compare this to modern cameras where they hand you the box, batteries and say good bye.

Hello,

I agree with you about that question of screws, Nathan. It was easy to mix bodies and baseplates at the factory and it is always the case now.

About the period 1941-46, there is another passport, always at DVD's, which is very interesting and puzzling. It is the one of a 1d, signed the 18/06/1941, serial number: 168018 for a "normal" 1d(non S). Previously, we had discussed of a 1eS # 180024, passport signed the 31/07/1941.

The substraction is easy: 12000 passports in 45 days, 270 passports in a day... It seems impossible, but we know absolutely nothing about the local and historical circumstances.

Or one of the passports is a fake, but I don't think so. And the 1S don't have a special range: they were always numbered amongst the regular NKVD.

Personally, I always think that our hypothesis (1e made in Kharkov till # c. 180000) is valid. The factory probably signed in a hurry the passports for all the finished cameras (perhaps even for non finished ones). But where did they go? Certainly, they were not sold. To the Red army, perhaps? To be sure, we should know the precise history of these last days...

Any idea about that period of history?
Amitiйs. Jacques.