Forerunners of Kiev 1947

Jacques,

no, you are not :-) With the knowledge of the history the Kiev/Contax is the most interesting camera to collect. And the Jena Contax seems to be the rarest german rangefinder build by Zeiss.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Hi Ulrich,

There is something I don't really understand in the chronology about the Jena Contax.
From your articles (the Conkies), I understand that:
1- the production lines are first made and tested,
2- the first 1947 Jena Contax and Kiev Contax are made,
3- the three production lines are dismounted and sent to Kiev.

OK. But with what were the following Jena Contaxes made? From spare parts, originally made in 1946-47 and used when necessary to mount the other series?
What was the exact date of the sending to Kiev?

Sorry: my German is non-existent...

Merci. Jacques.

Jacques,

that's apoint that I am wondering about too. Unfortunately the documents end in late 1947. They say that the Saalfeld production line was shipped to Kiev. The document says also that in the late Jena Contaxes there can be found front masks that were made of reengraved Kiev plates. So maybe the late Jena Contaxes were made in Kiev for special purposes? As I know the east germans have no permission to make ragnefinders under the name Contax in that time when e.g. your late Jena Contax was built.

Ulrich

http://fotos.cconin.de

Thanks, Ulrich.

There are probably two possibilities:
- on the three production lines, two only are shipped to Kiev. The remaining one is used to make Jena Contaxes when necessary. That was the original promise of the USSR authorities. But it seems that this promise was not hold and all was sent to Kiev.
Hence my second supposition.
- In 1946-47, the three production lines are made and immediately tested. Some rare early Jena Contaxes and Kiev Contaxes (those with the two numberings) are mounted. Besides, some 2000 parts are made and set apart. They will serve to mount the other series, from 1948.

About that, we can suppose that most of these Jena Contaxes were offered as gifts, rather than sold: the greatest number of these cameras seem unused, contrarily to the contemporaneous Kievs.

Zeiss Opton (West Germany) obtained the legal rights on "Contax" only in 1954. But the Kievs could continue, of course.

Concerning these curious late Jena Kiev, they are all in the last range of 100 cameras, serial number 30501-30600. Only 6 are actually known. I have absolutely no detail about them. Always gifts for Russians of rank, perhaps?

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Hello,

I received some weeks ago a 1948 Kiev. Here is a photo:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1322012_Kiev 48 1.jpg

In fact, mine is most on the Jena/Kiev side: no "3" with a flat top, for example. Of course, there are Dresden arrows with a central extension. And four rows on the rewind button:



http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1322012_Kiev 48 2.jpg

These four rows are present on all the prewar Contax II, early Kievs up to some 1949 ones, and on early Jena Contaxes (my # 30xxx doesn't have). Three rows seems the rule after.

Hi Jacques,
Absolutely splendid camera !
Lucky guy…
Mine is not so beautiful, and the lens is… a Jupiter #54xxx

Sincerly,et а bientфt,
Michel

Always on this 1948 Kiev, a ZK lens. I thought till now that 1948 ones were collapsible? The numbering seems correct.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1322012_Kiev 48 3.jpg

Are there other "solid" 1948 ZK that you would know?

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Merci Michel!
But I think that your body is most interesting with the flat top on "3" (Dresden side), the black ring under the selftimer (Jena specification)... All a world in a camera!

Amitiйs.

Hi Vlad,
I'm new to this forum. I just received my Kiev 2. I found your '52 Kiev 2 very interesting, as it is very different from mine. Perhaps yours considered the rare one

here's mine:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1252013_kiev2front.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1252013_kiev2foot.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1252013_kiev2roundfoot.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1252013_kiev2self.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1252013_kiev2serial.jpg

missed 1 image


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/1352013_kiev2rewind.jpg

An other Jena-Contax here.
The s/n 11829, next to my 11826 already seen above in the thread.
Externally, there is only one difference. The winding button has a different shape (screw and "bowl"). Nothing else before dismounting.

The general look first:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/972018_IMG_0108.JPG

And the curious winding button.

http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/972018_IMG_0109.JPG

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Just seen Michels post from Mar 04 2011 - I have Kiev 481100 in my collection, just 4 behind his camera. Mine also has 1100 engraved into the alloy shutter assembly.

Just for the pleasure, two photos of a fake Jena Contax "ivory", recently sold on the net:


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/432020_Jena Contax 27976 fake 4.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/432020_Jena Contax 27976 fake 2.jpg

To compare with a genuine ivory one. In fact, a fake too! (please see Xatnoc's and Ulrich's posts below)


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/432020_Jena Contax 27972 1.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/432020_Jena Contax 27972 3.jpg

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Another Jena Contax here (# 18055), already with the heavy back.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/872021_IMG_0388.JPG

The lens is an "exotic" Sonnar, already shown in another topic.

Amitiй. Jacques.

Hello,

just to add a little further detail to this interesting thread, I would like to add the data of my "Jena" Contax:

S.N.: 27893, also present on the inner surface of the "heavy" type, sheet-brass back; "square" accessory shoe.

Lens: Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1:2 5cm. "red T" s.n. 3051152.

All the best,

Enzo (E.L.)

Thanks, Enzo. I will add it in my listing.

For those who would be interested by that listing (around 240 Jena Contaxes), just pm. Unless Vlad thinks it could be interesting in our wiki?

Amitiйs. Jacques.

Dear Jacques,

I think that your listing would be most invaluable to those involved in the study and research about the evolution from the Contax to the Kiev lines.

Congratulations for your research effort,

Enzo

Hello everyone,
I have a concern that the ivory Contax 27972 shown in this thread above represents an authentic ivory camera. This notion is for the simple reason that the camera looks too good, the paint looks too fresh. I have followed the fate of this camera: first it was sold at a German Auction house, "Cornwall" in Cologne in auction 38, then it appeared on eBay again in 2016 where it was sold to the next owner. In my data, I also find a comment of a previous ivory Contax expert who expressed the same concern as me: looks too good. All true ivory Contax show some wear and the color starts to disintegrate. Using this criteria, any fake has a difficult position, as paint cannot be easily converted to paint that has already experienced >70 years. Similar situation as in paintings.......