Horizon 205 PC (Panoramic Camera)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zoom

It is interesting for me: what you will do with this gigabyte file? What for it is necessary to you?

---

to sell ultralarge, razorsharp panoramaposters without carrying heavy roundshots.

michael przewrocki

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

to sell ultralarge, razorsharp panoramaposters without carrying heavy roundshots.

---

Sorry, but you didn't answer my question... For what these high-resolution test files are necessary to you?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zoom

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

how about precision? if you even cannot write the model name properly, how can you really be interested in horizon 205 pc? ...

---

To whom have you been talking? ;)

About name: http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-names.html#horizon

---

you still are uncapable to write the true camera-name.
But very few people buys Horizon-205.

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zoom

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

to sell ultralarge, razorsharp panoramaposters without carrying heavy roundshots.

---

Sorry, but you didn't answer my question... For what these high-resolution test files are necessary to you?

---

you seem to be rather a horizon 205 pc-collector than a high-quality user.
it lasted several years until one of the horizon s3 pro-user confirmed that its new lens was bad at fstop 16. it must be replaced by 202-lens.
if you dont need quality you can use a holga. or horizon kompakt

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zoom

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

i had lost a lot of time finding out that panofot is only a prototype which will not be produced.

---

It is simple... Translate this page (you may translate only a first words): http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/panofot/index.html

quote:

---

Панофот (Panofot)
Проект панорамного фотоаппарата... (The project of panoramic camera...)

---

;)

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

maybe panofot d3 is the new digital swinglens cam.

---

Not swing-lens.
swinglens also new digital "horizont" maybe called panofot d3. not the first time kmz-zenit using existing model-names. see s3-pro(fuji).
d3 nikon, roundshot. clever but not very innovative.

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

but you must understand. i cannot do everything. i started my forum mainly due to the horizon-problem and to help KMZ-zenit to improve.

---

Say us what a problem Horisons has?
horizon s3-pro- lens not sharp at fstop 16.

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

kmz-zenit must at least come here and give minimum informations.

---

;)
What information you needed in?
informations about rotating speeds, production changes, camera improvements. not lies about lens-quality. s3-pro=sharper lens than 202

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

horizon 205 pc-despite the fact that this camere has been on the market since quite a long time, also pan-120, why cant we see highresolution-testfiles? is it so difficult to shoot and scan?

---

It is interesting for me: what you will do with this gigabyte file? What for it is necessary to you?

---

highest quality prints. miles above digital cams.

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama
you seem to be rather a horizon 205 pc-collector than a high-quality user.

---

Sorry, I'm not a photographer and not a collector...

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama
not the first time kmz-zenit using existing model-names. see s3-pro(fuji). d3 nikon, roundshot. clever but not very innovative.

---

At first, an indexes are not patentable...
At second, "Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro" was first announced on 05.02.2004, but "Horizon S3 pro" in Photokina'2002. So primary "S3 pro" name was first used by KMZ.

totally wrong. horizon s3pro was a big surprise at photokina 04, jan willem markeringk can confirm. he has the best photo-technique-site of the world. we had met at kmz-zenit-stand. i am not sure if s3-pro had not been announced at 02. i put some informations about total confusion of the shown testshots at photokina 02 or 04.
no precision is a big problem all over the world. not only in photography. precision leads to stability. thats why i am so sad that we photoraphers have to fight to get what we need. you cannot believe how much effort my american panoramic collegues put into producing eighter widepan(in china) and noblex(prototype was electropan by kornelius schorle) since widelux 1500 was bad. our effort to improve widelux 1500 here lead to a production change. until now i dont know anything about horizon 205 pc/pan 120 quality. i have seen two posters, shot under difficult light-situations. i was told that at one photokina parts fell apart.....but this happenend also with zeiss ikon....
if camera-producers would ask their potential customers beforehand and led them test a lot of pain would not happen.
horizons are unique among all rotating pancams. they are mechanical and lightweight. no electric parts to let them work. people complained about noblex(35mm versions) which led to improvements. horizon 205pc/pan 120 has/had a great potential, if only they had done some things better. e.g. lens-quality to get 55mm-image-height. 45mm equivalent compared to noblex/widepan/widelux(50mm) but larger image, smaller ratio.

limited vertical angle and lacking shift is a big problem for panorama-shooting.
thes large russian pancams have at least largest shift of all swinglens cams.
lets hope that digital horizon(panofot d3 ?) will have all we dreamed.
i would not be surprised if it will be a 360-cam rather than short-rotation/swinglens(limited angle 120/140 degr.) the same way we were surprised with the horizon-models (s3-pro etc.) at photokina 04.

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo

totally wrong. horizon s3pro was a big surprise at photokina 04, jan willem markeringk can confirm. he has the best photo-technique-site of the world. we had met at kmz-zenit-stand. i am not sure if s3-pro had not been announced at 02. i put some informations about total confusion of the shown testshots at photokina 02 or 04.
no precision is a big problem all over the world. not only in photography. precision leads to stability. thats why i am so sad that we photoraphers have to fight to get what we need. you cannot believe how much effort my american panoramic collegues put into producing eighter widepan(in china) and noblex(prototype was electropan by kornelius schorle) since widelux 1500 was bad. our effort to improve widelux 1500 here lead to a production change. until now i dont know anything about horizon 205 pc/pan 120 quality. i have seen two posters, shot under difficult light-situations. i was told that at one photokina parts fell apart.....but this happenend also with zeiss ikon....
if camera-producers would ask their potential customers beforehand and led them test a lot of pain would not happen.
horizons are unique among all rotating pancams. they are mechanical and lightweight. no electric parts to let them work. people complained about noblex(35mm versions) which led to improvements. horizon 205pc/pan 120 has/had a great potential, if only they had done some things better. e.g. lens-quality to get 55mm-image-height. 45mm equivalent compared to noblex/widepan/widelux(50mm) but larger image, smaller ratio.

limited vertical angle and lacking shift is a big problem for panorama-shooting.
thes large russian pancams have at least largest shift of all swinglens cams.
lets hope that digital horizon(panofot d3 ?) will have all we dreamed.
i would not be surprised if it will be a 360-cam rather than short-rotation/swinglens(limited angle 120/140 degr.) the same way we were surprised with the horizon-models (s3-pro etc.) at photokina 04.

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo

wikipedia-corrections- additions

i changed some incorrect "facts" in wikipedia horizon and added some true facts.
what nerves me most are incompetent editors of large photomagazines which over and over again over the years publishing incorrect/unsufficient data. but more nerves me incompetent camera-makers, unable/willing to learn. i know panoramic cameras are most complicated to build, thats why precise work is a must. we/me has suffered too much in the last 30 years. yes, 1979 started my horizont-drama. it started when the polish airline had an excuse not to transport my package in inner-polish flight from cracov to warsaw at the promises time/day. no enough space due to blood-conserve.... i must laugh, what a lie. maybe they expected to pay them. we call it: smearing(palm-oil)! i had to retravel to our airport the day after. all details about panorama-dramas(analogue pancams) can be read in my forum at:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/pancams

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

totally wrong. horizon s3pro was a big surprise at photokina 04, jan willem markeringk can confirm. he has the best photo-technique-site of the world. we had met at kmz-zenit-stand. i am not sure if s3-pro had not been announced at 02.

---

See http://www.zenitcamera.com/archive/horizon/index.html#horizon-s3

quote:

---

Originally posted by europanorama

horizon 205pc/pan 120 has/had a great potential, if only they had done some things better.

---

I think that a film cameras died... I don't like this, but this is the fact.

the inventor of the shift-mechanism left the cooperation leaving the construction to them. i can only guess why. lacking precision and ignorance to do it right. sorry kmz-zenit. i hope this has already been changed. i have just seen a long report about moscov, almost all about the riches. one has just found out that they need precision/quality. look at dubai, the super-riches. forgot to take care of human pollution(toilets). ultra-stupid.look at the bank-crisis. some swiss analysts who warned early enough were fired...

no -film-cameras will never die. look at new bessa/voigtlaender 67.
good 67 cameras will outbeat any dslr at the moment.
this crisis is a good chance for everybody to learn on all levels, right?

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo

Hello,

thanks to the help of a friend of mine from Moscow, I've just received a Horizon-205 camera (arrived on the past Saturday).

The camera, came complete with its case, filter set of 4, carrying case, instruction booklet and "Pasport". The serial no. is 0100038 and the pasport is dated 05/2011.

I hope I will have the time to test it very soon!

Best wishes,

Enzo - Italy

Would love to see the results!

Be very careful when cocking shutter. dont make a mistake.I could test it at photokina. but didnt have enough time. couldnt get a reasonable result. be aware: below 5m-like with widelux 1500-resolution will decrease. Met a friend in youth hostel who told me when he has seen it at the stand camera broke. i can understand. its slow photography. slowly cock the shutter and mount film the right way.
price still around 2300 euro.
If then i would be interested in Pan 120.
these mechanic rotapancams have ONE decisive advantage infront of NOBLEX: when its windy Noblex cannot rotate. or only with uneven rotation. Had both in helicopter.
i know why there is no 1/250. all mechanical rotapan-cams have a problem during start.even if film is shorter that 120mm. some millimeter are overexposed.
would like to know how exactly is filmsize. and we would like to se a comparision shot maybe of a house with and without shift(7mm).
use a cable-release. and tripod. and focussing must be done properly. i could provide DOF-table. if lens has same CoC(sharpness) like Widelux 1500. Z= 1/48. i added marker inbetween distance-scale.
if somone could write my handwritten data into a table.

www.europanorama.ch.vu
3DStereo-Aeropanorama
Swiss Alps like never before
Marspanoramas in 3D
sorry temp.ltd. access
3DSTEREO-Media
Photos/Panoramas/Videos

Hello,

after a very long time, I would like to add some pictures taken with my Horizon-205, during a fine, sunny, early summer day around home.

All taken on Rollei 100 ISO film, Yellow filter constantly mounted.

I apologize for the scans, that are far from being perfect.


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2412020_1.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2412020_2.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2412020_3.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2412020_4.jpg


http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent2/2412020_5.jpg

I am quite satisfied with the results and I will experiment more, with different films and weather.

All the best,

Enzo (E.L.)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Vlad

Would love to see the results!

---

There is no Horizon 205 on the market

www.europanorama.tk
3DStereo-Aeropanorama
Swiss Alps like never before
Marspanoramas in 3D not visible anymore
sorry website(geocities free)closed. no stereobee java-applet working.

Enzo, please add your specimen to the wiki catalog

Best regards,
Juhani

quote:

---

There is no Horizon 205 on the market

---

Hello Michael,

thank you for your reply.

Actually, I have two examples of this camera, with subtle differences of manufacture.

The first, bought by a colleague from Moscow at a local camera shop.

The second, bought from an italian hobby photographer: a few pieces of the 205 have been imported some years ago by Lino Manfrotto's Company (the maker of the well-known tripods) and merchandised on the Italian market. I don't know how many pieces have been imported/sold though, but this was advertised on local photo magazines, years ago.

As kindly suggested by Juhani, I will put the data of both my 205's in the wiki catalogue. I hope I will get the authorization to drive up to my laboratory, where my photo equipment is stored (we're living complicate times, in Italy, due to the well-known epidemic…).

All the best and greetings from Northern Italy,

Enzo

Edit:

searching through my papers at home, I've found the data of my two Horizon-205 "PC":

- the first, complete with its pasport, instructions and invoice, is no. 010038, made in May 2011 and re-checked ("pereproveren") in November 2015 (both dates with "OTK-188" stamp). With invoice and guarantee from "Fotozentr", Moscow, Gogolevsky Blvd., December 19th, 2015.

- the second, a piece imported in Italy by Manfrotto Trading, pity without documents, lost by the preceding owner, an old hobby photographer, is no. 010024.

Hello,

I would like to revive this discussion on the curious Horizon-205 PC panoramic camera.

Apparently, one of such cameras will be up for sale at Leitz Photographica Auction, November 26th 2022, lot nr. 401: https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/139632414_kmz-horizon-205-panoramic-camera-prototype

It has an estimate price of 12.000,-/14.000,- Euro and it will start with an opening price of 6.000,- Euro.

The piece is described as a prototype, but I don't see any detail -at least after the pictures provided- that would show any difference from the two cameras I own, both satisfactorily working for my hobby.

Perhaps, better reading the catalogue description one understands that the whole production of the russian 120-film panoramic camera, should be considered as made of prototypes, due to the few pieces assembled/sold.

So, also this post-USSR camera is entering in the dreams of collectors, not only of photographers...

All the best,

Enzo (E.L.)