Oh my god, Bill! You either have very small hands or this thing is humonngous! :)
Do you know what the 7-0-7 scale is for on rotating cylinder?
Vlad.
09/13/2007 09:26
Forums / Collectors and Users Open Forum
Horizon 205 PC (Panoramic Camera)
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showing replies 1-20 of 69
09/13/2007 11:31
Hi Vlad,
The camera is very large and heavy. I am 6' tall and have hands that are not small (just normal). It is really meant for use on a tripod and hand-holding it would be hard. It weighs about 6.3 lbs and when you hand-hold it has the feel of the size of a Speed Graphic. That being said, it is very comfortable to hold and the design is good.
I don't know what the 7-0-7 scale is, but I can tell you that because the lens rotates and the exposure is being made through a thin slit on the "shutter drum" near the film plane, the exposures take much longer than normal. For example, when you set the shutter to a 1 sec. exposure, it takes the rotating lens and shutter 19 sec. to complete the exposure. So hand-holding the camera would probably give a wavy image due to camera movement over the time. Maybe at 1/60 sec. it can be hand-held. Soon I will put a few rolls through it and see, and will post the results.
Regards, Bill
The camera is very large and heavy. I am 6' tall and have hands that are not small (just normal). It is really meant for use on a tripod and hand-holding it would be hard. It weighs about 6.3 lbs and when you hand-hold it has the feel of the size of a Speed Graphic. That being said, it is very comfortable to hold and the design is good.
I don't know what the 7-0-7 scale is, but I can tell you that because the lens rotates and the exposure is being made through a thin slit on the "shutter drum" near the film plane, the exposures take much longer than normal. For example, when you set the shutter to a 1 sec. exposure, it takes the rotating lens and shutter 19 sec. to complete the exposure. So hand-holding the camera would probably give a wavy image due to camera movement over the time. Maybe at 1/60 sec. it can be hand-held. Soon I will put a few rolls through it and see, and will post the results.
Regards, Bill
09/13/2007 11:40
I was just kidding about your hands 
. That is a huge camera! It's probably not meant to be shot hand-held... especially being this heavy... let me know once you read the manual at some point, I'm just curious about the scale by the lens..
Thanks,
Vlad
. That is a huge camera! It's probably not meant to be shot hand-held... especially being this heavy... let me know once you read the manual at some point, I'm just curious about the scale by the lens.. Thanks,
Vlad
09/13/2007 13:11
Vlad,
I didn't realize what you were referring to by the 7-0-7 scale .. now I see. That scale tells you the amount of adjustment that the lens is set at, vertically (up or down). The big inset knob below the lens can be turned either way to make this adjustment. So this means that the lens will be angled either up or down at exposure.
The lens adjusts up or down 8mm either way. The manual just says that this feature "expands the technical possibilities of photographing". Different literatures on the camera say two reasons: (1) For more accurate (less distortion) architectural photographs. (2)The brochure of the Horizon 205 PC pictured on my website says, "one can scan an additional area of the future picture without changing the camera position", which I believe is probably the case. This would allow three photos to be taken and the resulting prints spliced together to form a large panoramic mural.
Regards, Bill
I didn't realize what you were referring to by the 7-0-7 scale .. now I see. That scale tells you the amount of adjustment that the lens is set at, vertically (up or down). The big inset knob below the lens can be turned either way to make this adjustment. So this means that the lens will be angled either up or down at exposure.
The lens adjusts up or down 8mm either way. The manual just says that this feature "expands the technical possibilities of photographing". Different literatures on the camera say two reasons: (1) For more accurate (less distortion) architectural photographs. (2)The brochure of the Horizon 205 PC pictured on my website says, "one can scan an additional area of the future picture without changing the camera position", which I believe is probably the case. This would allow three photos to be taken and the resulting prints spliced together to form a large panoramic mural.
Regards, Bill
09/13/2007 13:31
I see, that makes sense, this way you have more vertical coverage if you're doing panoramic virtual tours. Thanks for checking on that!
Vlad.
Vlad.
09/13/2007 18:22
Bill
That is a great goal! Your acquisition is really unvaluable. Congratulations. These cameras as say the Italians - "Mi toglie il fiato!"
Your camera belongs to the second series. The first one had no PC control and had diferent lateral holders.
LP
That is a great goal! Your acquisition is really unvaluable. Congratulations. These cameras as say the Italians - "Mi toglie il fiato!"
Your camera belongs to the second series. The first one had no PC control and had diferent lateral holders.
LP
09/13/2007 18:38
Luiz,
Thank you. It is a beautiful camera and I am very happy to add it to my collection. The mechanism works very smoothly and you can see that it is a high-quality camera when you hold it. I have been looking for this camera for some time.
Luiz, do you know if any of these cameras are still being made by KMZ or did they stop production in 2005, or before?
Regards, Bill
Thank you. It is a beautiful camera and I am very happy to add it to my collection. The mechanism works very smoothly and you can see that it is a high-quality camera when you hold it. I have been looking for this camera for some time.
Luiz, do you know if any of these cameras are still being made by KMZ or did they stop production in 2005, or before?
Regards, Bill
03/20/2008 10:21
which former model had no shift. there are only two versions horizon 205 pc and pan 120(export model-identical inside).
shift is plus minus 7mm.
we would like to finally see a perfect test-report since kmz-zenit was unwilling to give the camera to real panorama experts. from all the 5x12-rotapan-cameras this one seems most clever.
1. it is mechanical- no problems with electronics
2. no problem with wind stopping rotating of the drum
3. large shift plus minus 7mm(not 8mm)
4. removed since 55mm is wrong 50,5mm is right.
5. large exposuretimes with no gap like widelux 1500/widepan
1/60 -1 sec.
yes you can shift up-shoot and shift down and shoot, then stitch the parts.
can someone having this camera do an extensive test? on tripod with exaxt distance measurings. depth of field is limited. thats why precise settings is important. i cold provide depth-of-field table of my widelux 1500. i tested it against noblex 150.
we want to know if ho 205 pc/pan 120 is a relieable tool. not like s3-pro where lens had been changed despite the fact that 202-lens was already perfect. see here:
http://www.pbase.com/europanorama/panoramic_camera&gcmd=add_comment
meanwhile newer s3-pro-production has the lens-position been changed to get better fepth-of field. but this has nothing to do with lacking lens-sharpness at fstop 16. best way is exchanging s3-pro lens by old 202-lens.
www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo
shift is plus minus 7mm.
we would like to finally see a perfect test-report since kmz-zenit was unwilling to give the camera to real panorama experts. from all the 5x12-rotapan-cameras this one seems most clever.
1. it is mechanical- no problems with electronics
2. no problem with wind stopping rotating of the drum
3. large shift plus minus 7mm(not 8mm)
4. removed since 55mm is wrong 50,5mm is right.
5. large exposuretimes with no gap like widelux 1500/widepan
1/60 -1 sec.
yes you can shift up-shoot and shift down and shoot, then stitch the parts.
can someone having this camera do an extensive test? on tripod with exaxt distance measurings. depth of field is limited. thats why precise settings is important. i cold provide depth-of-field table of my widelux 1500. i tested it against noblex 150.
we want to know if ho 205 pc/pan 120 is a relieable tool. not like s3-pro where lens had been changed despite the fact that 202-lens was already perfect. see here:
http://www.pbase.com/europanorama/panoramic_camera&gcmd=add_comment
meanwhile newer s3-pro-production has the lens-position been changed to get better fepth-of field. but this has nothing to do with lacking lens-sharpness at fstop 16. best way is exchanging s3-pro lens by old 202-lens.
www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo
03/20/2008 12:32
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Do you know what the 7-0-7 scale is for on rotating cylinder?
Lens shift.
03/20/2008 12:43
quote:
Originally posted by nightphoto
Luiz, do you know if any of these cameras are still being made by KMZ or did they stop production in 2005, or before?
Still in production, as I know... But very few people buys Horizon-205. Demand is insignificant.
Horizon-kompakt* and Horizon-perfekt are in production too, but under the orders of "Lomography Society".
See http://shop.lomography.com/horizon/kompakt/
and http://shop.lomography.com/horizon/perfekt/
*) -- Amendment: Horizon-kompakt was made two years ago in 2005--2006 years (~4000 cameras), but production will be continued.
03/21/2008 15:29
how about precision? if you even cannot write the model name properly, how can you really be interested in horizon 205 pc? i was told 3 pcs are being produced per months. if they could give out a good working model for a test then they could sell much more. or show a precise test. why is this so difficult? kmz-zenit. if nothing is done nothing will come back.
precision-which is also an issue in kmz-zenit-production.
if we do not pressure them we will never see perfectly working cameras!
just a little bit of precision is not enough for rotating lens pancams. i can tell you stories beginning in 1979 with horizont, then horizon 202 and finally s3-pro. and badly produced widelux 1500- thats why noblex started camera-production. we have been waiting for ho 205 pc since 1988....even in march 1981 when in accidentally was in moskov i was told that 3 pan-cameras were in production. but they didnt tell me which neighter they helped me solve the light-fall-in-problem in horizont. it is faith of this camera said foto-tass. technointorg even did not meet me. i had phone-contact from nearby hotel(beograd).
when s3-pro was in repair for the lens-problem i asked what they changed-if the lens has the same good quality like in 202 i was told it is looking similar. similar? we want perfect lenses in horizon-pancams. for horizon kompakt we can only ask which market has asked for a crippled camera? the kompakt is a joke not for serious panoramic photographers. widelux 1500 already has only 3 exposure times but fstops from 2.8 upwards. those limited 3 exposures is already a mess. how much a mess is a kompakt with so little possibilities. ii see at the end we will have to produce our own perfect lens for horizon s3-pro having the same quality like noblex over widelux. similar like the luxury model technopan with all exposure times.
www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo
precision-which is also an issue in kmz-zenit-production.
if we do not pressure them we will never see perfectly working cameras!
just a little bit of precision is not enough for rotating lens pancams. i can tell you stories beginning in 1979 with horizont, then horizon 202 and finally s3-pro. and badly produced widelux 1500- thats why noblex started camera-production. we have been waiting for ho 205 pc since 1988....even in march 1981 when in accidentally was in moskov i was told that 3 pan-cameras were in production. but they didnt tell me which neighter they helped me solve the light-fall-in-problem in horizont. it is faith of this camera said foto-tass. technointorg even did not meet me. i had phone-contact from nearby hotel(beograd).
when s3-pro was in repair for the lens-problem i asked what they changed-if the lens has the same good quality like in 202 i was told it is looking similar. similar? we want perfect lenses in horizon-pancams. for horizon kompakt we can only ask which market has asked for a crippled camera? the kompakt is a joke not for serious panoramic photographers. widelux 1500 already has only 3 exposure times but fstops from 2.8 upwards. those limited 3 exposures is already a mess. how much a mess is a kompakt with so little possibilities. ii see at the end we will have to produce our own perfect lens for horizon s3-pro having the same quality like noblex over widelux. similar like the luxury model technopan with all exposure times.
www.europanorama.ch.vu
3d-stereo-aeropanorama
swiss alps like never before
marspanoramas in 3d-stereo
03/21/2008 16:36
Zoom, what is a factory price of such camera? I'm just curious...
Thank you!
Vlad.
Thank you!
Vlad.
03/21/2008 16:50
quote:
Originally posted by europanorama
how about precision? if you even cannot write the model name properly, how can you really be interested in horizon 205 pc? ...
To whom have you been talking? ;)
About name: http://www.zenitcamera.com/qa/qa-names.html#horizon
03/21/2008 18:55
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
what is a factory price of such camera?
You are interesting in the Horizon-205 price?
Approx. 40000 Rubles.
But better to ask kmz207@zenit.istra.ru
03/22/2008 03:34
quote:
Originally posted by Zoomquote:
Originally posted by Vlad
what is a factory price of such camera?
You are interesting in the Horizon-205 price?
Approx. 40000 Rubles.
But better to ask kmz207@zenit.istra.ru
1 163,80 EUR says my currency converter
Smena rules
03/22/2008 09:49
Not too shabby! Thanks Zoom! Good to have this information.
Vlad
Thanks Zoom! Good to have this information.Vlad
03/28/2008 09:56
Happy to say, that Pan-120 (export version of Horizon-205 PC) today arrived safely to me from Sweden! While beeing a big man, this camera doesn't seems as matchboxes when hanging on my neck ...
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/pan-120.jpg
Regards,
Aidas
http://www.ussrphoto.com/UserContent/pan-120.jpg
Regards,
Aidas
03/28/2008 10:26
compliments Aidas ...lucky man !
alain
(psssttt ...how much ?
)
alain
(psssttt ...how much ?
)03/28/2008 10:30
Aidas - bravo! I see you are getting into more and more serious pieces lately! Reporter, Pan-120, Siluet... 
Vlad
Vlad
03/28/2008 11:24
quote:
Originally posted by mermoz37
compliments Aidas ...lucky man !
alain
(psssttt ...how much ?
Alain,
Thanks! I have nothing to hide ...
I have paid half a price of the new Horizon-205 PC ...03/28/2008 11:28
quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Aidas - bravo! I see you are getting into more and more serious pieces lately! Reporter, Pan-120, Siluet...
Vlad
Vlad,
Thanks for your assistance in aquiring this ...
! Unfortunately I already possess a lot of common FSU cameras, so only rarer ones on my target now ... Only please - say nothing to her ... Best Regards,
Aidas
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